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Author Topic: Get your facts straight?  (Read 1684557 times)

Easywater

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3615 on: June 28, 2024, 01:58:35 PM »

A good article from the Union of BC Indian Chiefs: https://www.ubcic.bc.ca/fish_farms_zero_tolerance

It's an old article (1998) but it outlines the issues clearly:

Fish Farms Pose Serious Danger To All Marine Life

Disease
Farmed salmon are fed antibiotics to fight naturally occurring diseases. The antibiotics cause diseases to mutate and these mutant strains are released into the oceans exposing wild stocks. Viral, fungal and bacterial infections have been passed to wild stock as a result of fish farms. Shellfish have been found with concentrations of antibiotics.

Antibiotics increase the likelihood that certain diseases will mutate and become resistant and can accumulate in the food chain.

Pollution
A fish farm is equivalent to having an untreated sewage facility on our shores. Pollution and effluent flow freely from fish pens and cause most resident species of fish and marine life to disappear from the area.
Predation on young stock
Young herring and salmon are drawn to fish pens because of the lights which they shine at night. These young herring and salmon are eaten by farmed fish. In some instances, farmed fish eat so many of the young wild stock that they have little need of additional food.

Algae
Effluent from fish farms provides ideal conditions for algae to grow. Algae can kill wild stocks either by poisoning them (through production of toxins, etc.,) or through the oxygen deprivation they cause. In addition, shell fish are vulnerable to the toxins produced by excessive growth of algae. Toxins from algae can contaminate shellfish making them unsafe to eat.

Drugs and Chemicals
In addition to antibiotics, fish farms introduce a variety of other chemicals into the water. These chemicals poison the water and build up in the food supply. The drugs and chemicals include colourants (to make the flesh of farmed salmon red) and fungicides. These chemicals escape into the surrounding waters, potentially poisoning resident marine life, and eventually poisoning our Peoples.

Colonization
Farmed salmon which escape from their pens pose significant risks to wild stocks. The dangers include

Competition for food and spawning areas. Farmed salmon can displace and force wild salmon and other fish from their traditional grounds and waters.

Farmed salmon can migrate with wild stocks to inland spawning areas. In British Columbia, Atlantic salmon have been found 100 miles up the Skeena River, over 250 miles from the nearest fish farm. On Vancouver Island, Atlantic salmon have been found in the Zeballos and Thasis rivers. Bearing in mind that one spawning Atlantic salmon can produce in excess of 4000 eggs, the dangers are great that Atlantic salmon can displace our own wild salmon stocks.

Displacement of Herring, Oolichan, and Rock Cod
Fish farms located near herring spawning grounds or the traditional habitat of oolichan and rock cod have caused these species to abandon their traditional areas.

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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3616 on: June 28, 2024, 04:47:54 PM »

A good article from the Union of BC Indian Chiefs: https://www.ubcic.bc.ca/fish_farms_zero_tolerance

It's an old article (1998) but it outlines the issues clearly:
Thanks Easywater. The same issues have been repeated for 26 years now with no proven outcome. Back when I was against salmon farming the biggest worry in the news was Atlantic salmon taking over spawning grounds and a presumption of inter-breeding. We know the latter is impossible now and taking over spawning grounds has never happened. Lets remember that since from about 1913 to into the 80's over 12 million Atlantic salmon were released for the purpose of sportfishing Atlantic runs. Nothing came from that or from escaped farm Atlantics. There is however to my knowledge pretty good Chinook salmon sport fishing on the east coast where Chinook salmon were released. 
   The question still is, where has salmon farming been detrimental to Pacific salmon?
Perhaps this is the reason salmon farming was granted a five year extension. 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2024, 04:49:52 PM by Fisherbob »
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Blood_Orange

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3617 on: June 28, 2024, 05:07:41 PM »

Thank you Easywater. I stand corrected. Spelling has never been my strong suite.
To be fair, I didn't realize "supposably" was at word at all. I was just being sarcastic but I learned something instead ::)
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3619 on: July 17, 2024, 08:00:36 PM »

You’re back! :)
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wildmanyeah

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3620 on: July 18, 2024, 02:18:49 PM »

85% are against salmon farming, also 85% of them eating farmed salmon in sushi bars and restaurants.
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Easywater

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3621 on: July 18, 2024, 03:10:04 PM »

Did you know that farmed Atlantic salmon are "exempt" from the freezing requirement for sushi grade fish.

All seawater raised fish (farmed and wild) can contain roundworm.
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Blood_Orange

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3622 on: July 18, 2024, 05:52:17 PM »

Did you know that farmed Atlantic salmon are "exempt" from the freezing requirement for sushi grade fish.

All seawater raised fish (farmed and wild) can contain roundworm.

The chance of parasites is lower for farmed salmon, which is why it's treated differently. Kind of like saying, "All cheese can contain salmonella" when you're debating between raw milk cheese or cheese made from pasteurized milk. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

Or, a more extreme and ridiculous example, "Driving can cause death, whether the driver is sober or drunk." ::) That said, I prefer my sashimi wild & previously frozen.
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wildmanyeah

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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3625 on: November 07, 2024, 12:50:03 PM »

amazing they can say that salmon returns are great and it just becomes facts
 
They’ve been doing that for years Matt, it’s how Almo gets her donations.
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wildmanyeah

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3626 on: November 08, 2024, 09:44:22 AM »

 
They’ve been doing that for years Matt, it’s how Almo gets her donations.

They said returns were horrible when the farms were there and their was record pink returns.

now that some are gone best returns ever lol! and its just facts to their supporters

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RalphH

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3627 on: November 14, 2024, 08:44:19 AM »

Yes all sides in many arguments seem to state it wrong when it suits their argument. Were record runs concurrent with high concentrations of salmon farms and maybe even lice? Prove it! I debunked the claim that a record run of pinks returned to the Broughton Archipelago immediately after the infamous collapse. Was there a good return? It was nowhere near a record. Likewise we continue to see good returns in some years despite the historically high numbers of pinnipeds in the SOG. So much for relationships claimed and supported by correlation.

Simple fact is there is more to the variability of salmon returns than a single factor or 2. Get use to it, there is not a single silver bullet or 2 that is going to return us to the ocean survival levels of the 1980s.

But while we are at it how about some hard data on the removal of fish farms might do:

"In response to a federal government order, the number of salmon farms operating in the Discovery Islands region declined from eight in 2020, to one in 2022. Over this period, 1627 juvenile pink (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) and chum (Oncorhynchus keta) salmon captured at sites throughout the study area were examined for sea lice. The average number of sea lice per juvenile salmon declined by 96% over the study period. Such a substantial decline was not witnessed in similar samples from the nearby Broughton Archipelago. The decline could not be attributed to chance sampling, and only a small proportion of it was associated with environmental fluctuations."

source: Canadian Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences. Effect of government removal of salmon farms on sea lice infection of juvenile wild salmon in the Discovery Islands;  V80 #12

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/full/10.1139/cjfas-2023-0039?fbclid=IwY2xjawGjAZ1leHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHaT7UamqdAjD3mSVtn7-j-c-txfDh__7rjohVe3G2DhRJYj9j1gre-Pyug_aem_IMBIJQ-lXuLlK_qZ_KrebQ


« Last Edit: November 14, 2024, 02:51:41 PM by RalphH »
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"The hate of men will pass and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people!" ...Charlie Chaplin, from his film The Great Dictator.

wildmanyeah

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3628 on: November 14, 2024, 09:57:01 AM »

Wasn't 2010 a record year for Fraser sockeye salmon? Regardless, I maintain that the returns of salmon do not serve as a definitive indicator of whether fish farms have caused them harm. It appears that the returns cannot be directly associated with fish farms, despite evidence suggesting that fish farms do indeed have detrimental effects on salmon populations.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2024, 10:06:06 AM by wildmanyeah »
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RalphH

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #3629 on: November 14, 2024, 02:53:27 PM »

Wasn't 2010 a record year for Fraser sockeye salmon?

so what! Had something to do with enriched minerals from a volcanic particles plume as I recall. A sort of one off event. As I said many factors can cause salmon numbers to fluctuate wildly.
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"The hate of men will pass and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people!" ...Charlie Chaplin, from his film The Great Dictator.