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[Johnny Canuck]

yes your comparison of an endangered jet liner carrying perhaps more than 100 people to a leadhead piloting a jet boat is an intellectual tour de force. I am impressed! 

Glad that you're impressed, I aim to please 

Why are you not allowed on the Harrison?

Environmentally sensitive areas.

Sandman, as you can see, the uneducated ones will never get it.

My grade 7 edjumakation has served me well in life...

The "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." moto is for those who live dull boring lives. Wake up at the same time every day, have the same PB & J sandwich day in, day out and then come home from work eat dinner watch the news and go to bed to get up and do it all over again the next day. Life is what you make it, whether it be fun and exciting or dull, boring and whiny.

jet boats on a small fishing river?

Alouette, norrish and capilano are small flows, the chilliwack is no where near a small river.

just because you can do something legally does not remove that fact that it's obnoxious.

So much could be said about this part but I wouldn't want to come across as a whiny cry baby because its not the way I would like it to be.

[typhoon]

Would you run your jet up the Alouette or Capilano? Just looking for where you draw the line.

[Johnny Canuck]

Would you run your jet up the Alouette or Capilano? Just looking for where you draw the line.

Alouette does not allow power boats so no I wouldn't run that river. It is also for too sensitive to have a boat run it as a jet does create some environmental damage such as bank erosion. Capilano fluctuates far too much to be safe for a boat. Although with it at a decent level like the 4 or 5 on the camera it probably would be doable however rather sphincter puckering on the way down lol. As for "drawing the line" I'm not doing anything illegal and have every right to do it if I want. If anyone has an issue or problem with me doing anything I am entitled to do maybe you should be worrying more about yourself and less about others and what they are doing.

On a side note it was not me who ran through trout bums run that day and was no where near the Chilliwack system that day let alone close to my boat.

[Sandman]

My grade 7 edjumakation has served me well in life...

The "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." moto is for those who live dull boring lives. Wake up at the same time every day, have the same PB & J sandwich day in, day out and then come home from work eat dinner watch the news and go to bed to get up and do it all over again the next day. Life is what you make it, whether it be fun and exciting or dull, boring and whiny.

I have no doubt that you really believe this.  I am happy to say I was not your Grade 7 teacher (or your father).  I would have taught you better.   Your ad hominem attacks aside, I have engaged in my share of thrilling adventures, but I would never put my own enjoyment above someone else's.  Even the kayaks I meet on the flow, quiet and benign fellow users of the same river, will pause above me and make sure I see them coming and try to avoid running through while I swing my fly.  I, in turn will retrieve my line and politely wait as they paddle through.  Even when I run my small 8 hp inflatable up the Harrison, I am conscious of the shore anglers and other boats, be they anchored or moving, and try to avoid them as much as possible.  You simply cannot avoid people while running a small river like the Chilliwack, so you are making a. conscious decision to put your own thrills above the enjoyment of other users.   Some people just have more respect for others and for the environment than other people do.  I don't blame you...I blame your parents.

[Noahs Arc]

Well said Sandman.

[Johnny Canuck]

I have no doubt that you really believe this.  I am happy to say I was not your Grade 7 teacher (or your father).  I would have taught you better.   Your ad hominem attacks aside, I have engaged in my share of thrilling adventures, but I would never put my own enjoyment above someone else's.  Even the kayaks I meet on the flow, quiet and benign fellow users of the same river, will pause above me and make sure I see them coming and try to avoid running through while I swing my fly.  I, in turn will retrieve my line and politely wait as they paddle through.  Even when I run my small 8 hp inflatable up the Harrison, I am conscious of the shore anglers and other boats, be they anchored or moving, and try to avoid them as much as possible.  You simply cannot avoid people while running a small river like the Chilliwack, so you are making a. conscious decision to put your own thrills above the enjoyment of other users.   Some people just have more respect for others and for the environment than other people do.  I don't blame you...I blame your parents.

Blame my parents? Why would you do that? I am old enough to choose what I would like to do and I can make my own decisions. Which school have you taught at? Maybe you were my teacher Maybe all kayakers are fly flingers as they sure never stop for the gear guys out there. Ad hominem attacks LMAO like the one you just did to me on my parents  Like I said I run it in JUNE during freshet when the river is closed to fishing (but I guess you read that already) and how I said that I wasn't on or near the chilliwack river let alone my boat that day.

[GordJ]

Over the years I have seen 3 or 4 boats all the way up as far as the end of the canal and I don't think that it is fair that the 150,000+ yearly angler days should be ruined by these 3 or 4 boaters each and every year!!!!!

Sandman, brilliant to bring J.C. to task for his ad hominem attacks while insulting his family. And your comment about teaching him better really made me happy because one never gets to use self-aggrandizing in a post and now I get to use it and pompous in the same one! Of course, you must be a teacher because they are usually the subject that brings out those two words. Along with J.C.'s statement about his development as a person, I also credit my teachers with very little of my education and none of my personal development.
And your comment about "to put your own thrills above the enjoyment of other users" has me confused because isn't that what you are advocating when you want to keep boaters off the river completely? At least the boaters only inconvenience a small percentage of the anglers in the lower end of the river while you want to ban all boaters.

[armytruck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsHJNgMKSJ8 

[Rodney]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsHJNgMKSJ8 

Haha! Looks like Island 22 in August.

[alwaysfishn]

Haha! Looks like Island 22 in August.

I was thinking it looked more like the Vedder in April.... 

[Sandman]

And your comment about "to put your own thrills above the enjoyment of other users" has me confused because isn't that what you are advocating when you want to keep boaters off the river completely? At least the boaters only inconvenience a small percentage of the anglers in the lower end of the river while you want to ban all boaters.

Not sure where you saw me advocating a ban on all boaters on the river (red herring?).  Bans are only necessary when people cannot make the right decision for themselves.  I only mentioned that the running of a jet boat up to Tamahi, while perhaps possible, may not necessarily be the best idea (just because you can doesn't mean you should).  I am also intrigued by both you and JC's comments about his parents, since all I said was that I blame them for his callous attitudes about his exercising his so called boating rights at the expense of other users enjoyment, and his characterizing of anyone without a jet boat as just "jealous" of his possessions and living "dull boring lives" if they are not running jets up to Tamahi.  For this to be insulting, you would first have to admit that there is something wrong with his attitudes and comments, which you both are trying to defend. hmm. 

Just to clarify, an ad hominem attack is criticizing the opposing person in a debate rather than addressing the issue at hand.  JC, instead of just explaining why jetting up a small river like the Vedder (while a larger river than say the aforementioned Allouette and Norrish, the Chilliwack river is still small compared to rivers like the Harrison, Pitt, or Lower Stave) through a run while fisherman are trying to fish from shore is acceptable, he attacks the other posters as "jealous" and "boring."  THAT is ad hominem. Had he stuck to defending the action instead of insulting the other posters, he would not be committing the fallacy. Since I, when blaming his parents for not teaching him better, was addressing his attitudes and comments, not the running of the river, my attack was not ad hominem, it was a critique of his rhetorical methods and their inherent logical fallacies, skills his parents and teachers should have done a better job teaching.

[Johnny Canuck]

Not sure where you saw me advocating a ban on all boaters on the river (red herring?).  Bans are only necessary when people cannot make the right decision for themselves.  I only mentioned that the running of a jet boat up to Tamahi, while perhaps possible, may not necessarily be the best idea (just because you can doesn't mean you should).  I am also intrigued by both you and JC's comments about his parents, since all I said was that I blame them for his callous attitudes about his exercising his so called boating rights at the expense of other users enjoyment, and his characterizing of anyone without a jet boat as just "jealous" of his possessions and living "dull boring lives" if they are not running jets up to Tamahi.  For this to be insulting, you would first have to admit that there is something wrong with his attitudes and comments, which you both are trying to defend. hmm. 

Just to clarify, an ad hominem attack is criticizing the opposing person in a debate rather than addressing the issue at hand.  JC, instead of just explaining why jetting up a small river like the Vedder (while a larger river than say the aforementioned Allouette and Norrish, the Chilliwack river is still small compared to rivers like the Harrison, Pitt, or Lower Stave) through a run while fisherman are trying to fish from shore is acceptable, he attacks the other posters as "jealous" and "boring."  THAT is ad hominem. Had he stuck to defending the action instead of insulting the other posters, he would not be committing the fallacy. Since I, when blaming his parents for not teaching him better, was addressing his attitudes and comments, not the running of the river, my attack was not ad hominem, it was a critique of his rhetorical methods and their inherent logical fallacies, skills his parents and teachers should have done a better job teaching.

Well written now maybe dumb it down so you don't appear to put yourself on a high horse above everyone else.

Everyone says steelhead have the brain the size of a peanut, that must be why they're so easy to get to bite. Although I find it just as easy to have a human bite and they're supposed to be the most intelligent species on this planet. I guess the right bait if served up correctly really helps, for example a simple post on a discussion forum on a topic some strongly disagree with. Thanks sandman for entertaining me its been great...


 

[GordJ]

Not sure where you saw me advocating a ban on all boaters on the river (red herring?).  Bans are only necessary when people cannot make the right decision for themselves.  I only mentioned that the running of a jet boat up to Tamahi, while perhaps possible, may not necessarily be the best idea (just because you can doesn't mean you should).  I am also intrigued by both you and JC's comments about his parents, since all I said was that I blame them for his callous attitudes about his exercising his so called boating rights at the expense of other users enjoyment, and his characterizing of anyone without a jet boat as just "jealous" of his possessions and living "dull boring lives" if they are not running jets up to Tamahi.  For this to be insulting, you would first have to admit that there is something wrong with his attitudes and comments, which you both are trying to defend. hmm. 

Just to clarify, an ad hominem attack is criticizing the opposing person in a debate rather than addressing the issue at hand.  JC, instead of just explaining why jetting up a small river like the Vedder (while a larger river than say the aforementioned Allouette and Norrish, the Chilliwack river is still small compared to rivers like the Harrison, Pitt, or Lower Stave) through a run while fisherman are trying to fish from shore is acceptable, he attacks the other posters as "jealous" and "boring."  THAT is ad hominem. Had he stuck to defending the action instead of insulting the other posters, he would not be committing the fallacy. Since I, when blaming his parents for not teaching him better, was addressing his attitudes and comments, not the running of the river, my attack was not ad hominem, it was a critique of his rhetorical methods and their inherent logical fallacies, skills his parents and teachers should have done a better job teaching.

For one, I disagree that someone running a boat up any river is done  "at the expense of other users enjoyment" because any argument made against boaters can be made against fishers or any user group. Fishers blocking boaters runs or rafters ruining an anglers drift or someone's cell ringing all fit the criteria.
The vast majority of anglers on the Vedder before freshet are on the bank or in water no deeper than their knees so a boat going by has a short time to disrupt a fisherman and hardly impacts their day, in my opinion. Every user has a right to the river and should realize a responsibility to minimize his/her impact on other users but they have the right to recreate in whatever manner they find enjoyable and does not breach the law or cause harm to the environment or other people.  Just because a bunch of anglers think they have the exclusive right to the river doesn't mean they really do.
And although I don't understand the complexities of what constitutes an ad hominem attack it seems to me that when you claim that his parents have weak parenting skills, his teachers failed to educate him as well as you would have or critiquing his rhetorical methods and attitudes you are coming close to attacking him and not his arguments.

[EZ_Rolling]

There are great rivers for shore fishing .... There are great rivers for jet boats very few that are both

[bcguy]

There are great rivers for shore fishing .... There are great rivers for jet boats very few that are both

Peace