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[bkk]

Steelhead used for brood stock are NOT killed for their eggs and milt.

  They are in some places.

 I know because I have done it for the reasons that Dave has mentioned. Air spawning leaves many eggs still in the fish and since it is a numbers game it is better to utilise all of the eggs in a fish as opposed to just getting more fish from the river. Return rates on air spawned kelts is low as very few of them come back on subsequent years to spawn.

[Matt]

Fish are not made of sugar. It takes some force to damage their protective coat.
Wool is soft and unless you are using rubber gloves or some other hard material the fish should be ok.

This is simply incorrect.  No gloves.  Wool will scrap protective slime off the fish exposing it to disease and fungi as has been said many times on this forum and is printed in the regs:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/ethics/
If you must handle the fish, do so with your bare, wet hands (not with gloves). Keep your fingers out of the gills, and don't squeeze the fish or cause scales to be lost or damaged. It is best to leave fish in the water for photos. If you must lift a fish then provide support by cradling one hand behind the front fins and your other hand just forward of the tail fin. Minimize the time out of the water, then hold the fish in the water to recover. If fishing in a river, point the fish upstream while reviving it. When the fish begins to struggle and swim normally, let it go.

If you can't pick up a fish barehanded without dropping it, leave it in the water and unhook it there.

[Tex]

Wool is soft and unless you are using rubber gloves or some other hard material the fish should be ok.

I have not done my own mortality tests on fish, but I would be shocked - SHOCKED - if anyone could prove to me a wool glove removes LESS protective slime than a rubber glove. 

Think about it - if you got slime on your hand and you wanted it off, and there were two walls in front of you.  One was made of wool, and the other was made of rubber... which one would you rub your hand on to get all the slime off?

[adriaticum]

This is simply incorrect.  No gloves.  Wool will scrap protective slime off the fish exposing it to disease and fungi as has been said many times on this forum and is printed in the regs:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/ethics/
If you must handle the fish, do so with your bare, wet hands (not with gloves). Keep your fingers out of the gills, and don't squeeze the fish or cause scales to be lost or damaged. It is best to leave fish in the water for photos. If you must lift a fish then provide support by cradling one hand behind the front fins and your other hand just forward of the tail fin. Minimize the time out of the water, then hold the fish in the water to recover. If fishing in a river, point the fish upstream while reviving it. When the fish begins to struggle and swim normally, let it go.

If you can't pick up a fish barehanded without dropping it, leave it in the water and unhook it there.

I know that's the theory. But if you have to use gloves, wool is better than rubber or leather.
I pretty much don't use gloves and when I do, they're wool. I see fish kicked and rolled on the rocks all the time and most of them are ok.
Not that I want to teach people to kick and drag the fish onto the rocks.

[adriaticum]

I have not done my own mortality tests on fish, but I would be shocked - SHOCKED - if anyone could prove to me a wool glove removes LESS protective slime than a rubber glove. 

Think about it - if you got slime on your hand and you wanted it off, and there were two walls in front of you.  One was made of wool, and the other was made of rubber... which one would you rub your hand on to get all the slime off?

All handling of fish will remove slime from fish unless you don't touch the fish and unhook it in the water with one of the unhooky thingamajiggies.
Wool is softer than leather (nobody uses leather gloves anyway in the water), I don't have to tell you that. Just put a pair on and touch your face.
You are doing more damage to the fish by rolling it on the rocks and laying it on it's side and letting it thrash around than handling it's tail with wool gloves.
I would always rather keep the fish in the water fully and grab it's tail with wool gloves than roll it on it's side on the rocks to unhook it.
But we all know perfect scenarios rarely happen.

[cutthroat22]

I don't understand the point of using gloves on steelhead or salmon.  They are easy enough to release by tailing and unhooking.

If it's winter and cold take the glove off, release fish, then put the glove back on.

[joshhowat]

Also if its cold and your wearing gloves and you take them off before handling the fish. When your done with the fish your wet cold hands will become dry warm hands in your dry gloves. Not soaking wet hands and gloves all day.

[Tex]

Wool is softer than leather (nobody uses leather gloves anyway in the water), I don't have to tell you that. Just put a pair on and touch your face.

What does "softness" have to do with this?  We're not petting the fish, we're grabbing them.

Whether or not you remove slime is all about texture, not whether the material is soft or hard.  Rough-textured materials (ie. wool) will remove more slime than a smooth material (ie. rubber), assuming your grip is firm.

I used to use textured gloves when tailing fish because it provided a better grip. They would always be covered in slime afterwards.  One time while on the water I had on a latex glove because I had a cut on my hand, and after I'd tailed the fish with my wet latex glove, there was minimal (if any) slime on it.

Nowadays (and for many years), I simply don't wear ANY gloves when tailing fish. 

[adriaticum]

There is a way higher survival rate of hatchery raised fish than fish surviving in the wild. There is clearly something wrong on the river if the wilds aren't making it on their own.

There is nothing wrong with the river. It's only natural that hatchery fish will have a higher survival rate. They are protected in pens so nothing eats them until they are released.
This is a huge advantage

[HOOK]

No glove is how I ended up with 2 kids !!! 




Im in the NO GLOVE side of this debate when it comes to fish handling, I also tail fish I intend to release in water deep enough they cant smash around on the rocks/sand unless its not possible

[silver ghost]

I know that's the theory. But if you have to use gloves, wool is better than rubber or leather.
I pretty much don't use gloves and when I do, they're wool. I see fish kicked and rolled on the rocks all the time and most of them are ok.
Not that I want to teach people to kick and drag the fish onto the rocks.

All handling of fish will remove slime from fish unless you don't touch the fish and unhook it in the water with one of the unhooky thingamajiggies.
Wool is softer than leather (nobody uses leather gloves anyway in the water), I don't have to tell you that. Just put a pair on and touch your face.
You are doing more damage to the fish by rolling it on the rocks and laying it on it's side and letting it thrash around than handling it's tail with wool gloves.
I would always rather keep the fish in the water fully and grab it's tail with wool gloves than roll it on it's side on the rocks to unhook it.
But we all know perfect scenarios rarely happen.

uhhh... dude, what? I think people were talking about rubber vs. wool gloves and the negative effects on fish handling, not comparing it to dragging the fish onto the rocks and unhooking it there, two different scenarios.

It's not rocket science...tail the fish with one ungloved hand, pop hook out with other ungloved hand... voila!

There is nothing wrong with the river. It's only natural that hatchery fish will have a higher survival rate. They are protected in pens so nothing eats them until they are released.
This is a huge advantage

Agree that hatchery fish are able to 'hit the ground running' so-to-speak.

But in terms of the river having "nothing wrong with it" well, look at the estuary... you have Kinder Morgan Westridge on the left, Chevron oil refinery on the right and the transfer station and shipyards in between to name a few... the wild outmigrating steelhead smolts have to pass by all this, under the two bridges that happen to be populated by cormorants, and swim by the sewage treatment plant and out into the ocean... 

The hatchery steelhead smolts are taken out to lighthouse park by barge or truck and released, absent of all pollution mentioned earlier. While the predation nets at the hatchery reduce the chances of fish being picked off by animals and birds, there is a little more to it... sorry for going off-topic 

anyways...NO GLOVE 

[Johnny Canuck]

There is nothing wrong with the river. It's only natural that hatchery fish will have a higher survival rate. They are protected in pens so nothing eats them until they are released.
This is a huge advantage

Nothing wrong with the river? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I REALLY hope you were being sarcastic or joking... Here's one HUGE problem on the Seymour... The dam! This causes far lower water temperatures in the river due to water being let out of the dam from the bottom of the reservoir versus the surface water which is warmer. Now as for the hatchery fish having a higher survival percent part. If it came down to two wilds in the river, one male and one female. Would you want to let them be in the wild or catch them and use their eggs and milt to raise 2500-4500 fry and greatly increase the chances of those fry actually having a chance at repopulating the river? I know what I would do and I think I already know what you would do as well as you tail the fish with your ever so soft wool gloves...

[adriaticum]

Nothing wrong with the river? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I REALLY hope you were being sarcastic or joking... Here's one HUGE problem on the Seymour... The dam! This causes far lower water temperatures in the river due to water being let out of the dam from the bottom of the reservoir versus the surface water which is warmer. Now as for the hatchery fish having a higher survival percent part. If it came down to two wilds in the river, one male and one female. Would you want to let them be in the wild or catch them and use their eggs and milt to raise 2500-4500 fry and greatly increase the chances of those fry actually having a chance at repopulating the river? I know what I would do and I think I already know what you would do as well as you tail the fish with your ever so soft wool gloves...

Ok, sure the dam is a problem but given that that's not going to change the question was why do hatchery fish have better survival rate then wild fish in the same river. At least that's how I understood your question. Another way to answer it would be to ask why do domestic cows have a better survival rate than rocky mountain elk.

You know squat about how I would handle fish. I didn't say it's good to use gloves or that I use them.
I just said that I think wool gloves do less damage then rubber gloves and if I was forced to use gloves I would chose wool. Latex is not the same as rubber also.
And let me repeat it for you, I don't use gloves when fishing.
 

[zap brannigan]

i dont get your logic on wool gloves not being as damaging, if you blew snot all over your hand what would type of glove would wipe that off better wool, rubber, or leather? soft material dont change a thing its gonna wipe all that slime coat off the fish regardless.

[Johnny Canuck]

You know squat about how I would handle fish.

I pretty much don't use gloves and when I do, they're wool. I see fish kicked and rolled on the rocks all the time and most of them are ok.

All handling of fish will remove slime from fish unless you don't touch the fish and unhook it in the water with one of the unhooky thingamajiggies.
Wool is softer than leather (nobody uses leather gloves anyway in the water), I don't have to tell you that. Just put a pair on and touch your face.
You are doing more damage to the fish by rolling it on the rocks and laying it on it's side and letting it thrash around than handling it's tail with wool gloves.
I would always rather keep the fish in the water fully and grab it's tail with wool gloves than roll it on it's side on the rocks to unhook it.

I have a pretty good idea how you handle fish. With wool gloves, although in the water, which damages the fish no matter what. As for the fish that you see rolled on the rocks and they "appear" to be ok do you see the exact same fish 7-10 days later after an infection has set in due to the slime loss? Or the fish that you handle or see handled with gloves (of any sort whether they are wool or a synthetic)? No I didn't think so! Honestly you're all over the place about saying this is better that is better and you have no real clue what you're even talking about. It says clearly in the regulations that a bare wet hand is to be used to tail fish that intend to be released. Now if anyone out there is too worried about not getting that grip and grin hero shot with a fish they shouldn't be fishing, simple as that.