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[Pin-nook]

Brutal....Must not be a long time fisherman to realize that BBing is just a form of snagging! 

Think of how a BB rig works once you cast it out!  Think of how many people think it's easy once they get into it and think it must work on other rivers. It's a pure meat harvest and the fish aren't biting your hook! 

I'm a retired BB'r cause I know the difference and seen the ugliness it causes. I was damn good at it back then and only used a 7-9 foot leader and whatever colored corkie I had and still got my 2. 

Oh man...why did I even bother to reply to this!!

[salmonlover]

Uh huh, ok.  That is why we outfish everybody near us combined?

Remember though, for greatest effectiveness, you must rip the pole back multiple times throughout a cast, just in case there is a fish nearby.

I don't know if you are serious or just being a troll. Just because you out fish people next to doesnt mean the fish are biting. There are techniques to every fishery. Most people who bottom bounce do not have a clue how to do it effectively. Personally Bare hook or wool really doesn't matter as long as you are hitting the lane. I feel wool gives you an advantage because it can get caught up in the fishs teeth. This is a snagging fishery no doubt about it. That's why you have to use wool or something on hook or else it is illegal to bottom bounce because its considered snagging. You wanna bottom bounce go ahead but don't delude yourself to think you are enticing a fish to bite.

[TNAngler]

I don't know if you are serious or just being a troll. Just because you out fish people next to doesnt mean the fish are biting. There are techniques to every fishery. Most people who bottom bounce do not have a clue how to do it effectively. Personally Bare hook or wool really doesn't matter as long as you are hitting the lane. I feel wool gives you an advantage because it can get caught up in the fishs teeth. This is a snagging fishery no doubt about it. That's why you have to use wool or something on hook or else it is illegal to bottom bounce because its considered snagging. You wanna bottom bounce go ahead but don't dilude yourself to think you are enticing a fish to bite.

:sigh:  The fish are biting.  As I posted in another thread, with the setup we have, we have had numerous sockeye take it when it is just sitting at the back of the boat, not trying to fish.  You can't tell me that a spin-n-glo spinning a foot below the water five feet behind the boat is flossing anything.

We have a spin-n-glo along with some yarn and other stuff but we are still bottom bouncing with it.

And I have been fishing for all kinds of salmon for almost 40 years.  If you can't tell whether the fish is taking it or getting snagged, then you don't know what you are doing.  The fish, sockeye and chinook alike almost rip the pole out of my hands.  They are hooked usually through the nose.  Almost never in the corner of the mouth.  Always inside the mouth.  A good portion of the fish would be hooked well enough by hitting that setting the hook wouldn't even be required.

And hitting the lane is important no matter which way you fish.  If the fish are right on the bottom and you are near the top, you won't catch anything.  If you are on the bottom and they are near the top, you won't catch anything.  If it is deep enough, if they are in the middle and you are on the bottom, you won't catch anything.  You have to be able to put it relatively in front of them, close enough that they care.

And nobody has given any explanation for why the color of the yarn matters if I am flossing.  If we are just flossing, then the color would make absolutely no difference.  The fact that we get tons of bites with a certain color, and virtually none with a different color, and everything else is the same, including fish still being caught by others in the boat using the right color, you can't tell me that is just flossing or snagging anything.  We have done these experiments.  Switch one fisherman that has been catching fish to a different color for a bit, leave everyone else the same.  The other color stops catching fish completely.

Explain how that indicates flossing and snagging.  If you can explain that, then I will consider your positions.

[Pin-nook]

I don't know if you are serious or just being a troll. Just because you out fish people next to doesnt mean the fish are biting. There are techniques to every fishery. Most people who bottom bounce do not have a clue how to do it effectively. Personally Bare hook or wool really doesn't matter as long as you are hitting the lane. I feel wool gives you an advantage because it can get caught up in the fishs teeth. This is a snagging fishery no doubt about it. That's why you have to use wool or something on hook or else it is illegal to bottom bounce because its considered snagging. You wanna bottom bounce go ahead but don't delude yourself to think you are enticing a fish to bite.

Rodney....where do I click "LIKE" for this post!

I actually had a longer post previously but this topic will pop up again so I didn't bother!

[zap brannigan]

All of u fools realize that salmon do not eat in fresh water, all bites are accidental or u have aggrivated the fish to the point of striking .........bottom bounce away buddy and good luck

coho will take dew worms quite readily, every species will take roe, ive seen coho caught on raw chicken before, ive caught all species on shrimp/prawns, hard to say if they feed or what but in all reality what they eat in the ocean isnt gonna be in the river so even if they were still feeding theres nothing there for them to really eat.

[TNAngler]

Not that it will matter because I don't think you guys would listen anyways but we have also talked with a fish bioligist who has a very good explanation for why the fish are striking at our combination.  It envokes a reaction because of their years in the salt.  He wasn't at all surprised that the fish didn't strike at other combinations.

[Damien]

[trot]

:sigh:  The fish are biting.  As I posted in another thread, with the setup we have, we have had numerous sockeye take it when it is just sitting at the back of the boat, not trying to fish.  You can't tell me that a spin-n-glo spinning a foot below the water five feet behind the boat is flossing anything.

We have a spin-n-glo along with some yarn and other stuff but we are still bottom bouncing with it.

And I have been fishing for all kinds of salmon for almost 40 years.  If you can't tell whether the fish is taking it or getting snagged, then you don't know what you are doing.  The fish, sockeye and chinook alike almost rip the pole out of my hands.  They are hooked usually through the nose.  Almost never in the corner of the mouth.  Always inside the mouth.  A good portion of the fish would be hooked well enough by hitting that setting the hook wouldn't even be required.

And hitting the lane is important no matter which way you fish.  If the fish are right on the bottom and you are near the top, you won't catch anything.  If you are on the bottom and they are near the top, you won't catch anything.  If it is deep enough, if they are in the middle and you are on the bottom, you won't catch anything.  You have to be able to put it relatively in front of them, close enough that they care.

And nobody has given any explanation for why the color of the yarn matters if I am flossing.  If we are just flossing, then the color would make absolutely no difference.  The fact that we get tons of bites with a certain color, and virtually none with a different color, and everything else is the same, including fish still being caught by others in the boat using the right color, you can't tell me that is just flossing or snagging anything.  We have done these experiments.  Switch one fisherman that has been catching fish to a different color for a bit, leave everyone else the same.  The other color stops catching fish completely.

Explain how that indicates flossing and snagging.  If you can explain that, then I will consider your positions.

And anyone who thinks sockeye are biting in the Fraser when you bottom bounce  certainly don't have a clue on what they are doing, nor a grip on reality....Have you ever looked at what wool looks like in the fraser? you cant see it two inches away, now imagine trying to spot it while it zips down river. You must be a troll-My hats off to you because you are a good one. I find it sad to see how many people have agreed that they are indeed getting them to bite, however. If there was a test in order to get a fishing license you would fail.

[Rantalot]

i agree with this. I tie hooks with 3 different colours of wool and i am definitely not flossing them you can feel them bite it.

OMG I almost pissed myself. Sure you feel the bite with the 3 or 4 oz bouncing along the bottom ! Keep telling yourself that you feel the bite if it makes you feel better

[samw]

I don't understand why a lot of you guys hate on bottom bouncing. I have been bottom bouncing and have never hooked a fish other than in the mouth. I can immediately tell if i have the fish in the mouth. I do not even pull back and set the hook until i feel it bite my hook hard.


are you for or against it and why?

If by bottom bouncing, you are talking about drift fishing with a 30" leader, it is quite a common technique and does get fish to bite.  http://www.steelheadnotebook.net/drift.htm When I went to Central Coast, everyone (except fly fishermen) bottom bounced and were getting fish to bite.  I couldn't find one person float fishing there during my 3 day visit.  If by bottom bouncing, you are talking about using bouncing betty with a 12' leader, then it is flossing.  Are you asking about the first or 2nd?  Just want to make sure everyone is on the same page.  Unfortunately, most people in the Lower Mainland only see the 2nd method and many clump all forms of bottom bouncing as flossing or snagging.  I don't see many people drift fishing around here probably due to the negativity associated with bottom bouncing around here in Region 2.

[banx]

I was also talking about a complete different form of 'bottom bouncing'.... I dont have any experience with bouncing betty's or fishing for sockeye on the fraser..... so i'm not sure if my experience is relevant.

I used 'bottom bouncing' on smaller river systems with a lot more visibility than what the fraser has........... 1 ounce of weight and a 24-36" leader.

I assure you that the fish will bite with this technique as you can actually see the take in some waters.

[Rodney]

Putting the bottom bouncing discussion aside for one second, because most of you have already made up your mind and I think it's ridiculous to waste more time trying to argue what fish can and cannot see in water with a few inches of visibility, lets talk about the consequences of not abiding to what you are being asked to do.

It's all cool and dandy that you are able to catch and release 50 sockeye salmon by getting them to bite while others can't even get a couple on the hook, but this is currently a selective fishery. Participants are asked to avoid catching and releasing sockeye salmon, and only target chinook salmon. If you are catching and releasing that many sockeye salmon, you are not selectively targeting chinook salmon. This doesn't really have much to do with whether you are flossing or not, the same would apply to other fisheries and techniques. If anglers are asked not to target coho salmon in the Fraser in September, yet the managers determine the percentage of by-catch is too high, management measures will be implemented. If managers determine that you, as in the whole recreational Fraser River summer chinook fishery, are intercepting too many sockeye salmon, then expect to see more extended "no salmon fishing" in future summers.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada has no intention to implement additional terminal tackle regulations on this fishery. They are satisfied with the way it is being operated right now (too many sockeye interception, whole fishery shuts down). First Nations will report and request Fisheries and Oceans Canada to follow through this implementation when they see sockeye salmon being caught. Sooner or later emails will be in my inbox giving advance warnings of the immediate closure of the fishery because of actions by participants like you. Personally do I really care if it stays open or not? Not really, there are way nicer places to fish in this province during the months of July and August. Consider the above as a favour. If you want to see this fishery remain open, stop hooking and releasing sockeye salmon.

[fisherforever]

Sure would be nice to see the Fraser go back to the pre 1992 days. Sockeye were only opened to First Nations in freshwater, if the sport fisher wanted sockeye they had to go fish in the salt chuck. Barfishing for springs started in May, miss those early season openings.

[Johnny Canuck]

Sure would be nice to see the Fraser go back to the pre 1992 days. Sockeye were only opened to First Nations in freshwater, if the sport fisher wanted sockeye they had to go fish in the salt chuck. Barfishing for springs started in May, miss those early season openings.

I used to look forward to May long weekend far more back then...


To those that are catching more than a handful of sockeye in the non-tidal section of the Fraser and that those fish are biting are truly misinformed. It is possible that a few fish may actually bite but that would be happening on a barfing setup. I bet if I stood right beside TNAngler and tossed out a bare hook that I would get as many fish as his "secret" setup. Actually I think I would probably hook more fish because I understand fully what is truly happening in the water. Sure I have participated in sockeye flossing openings (not denying I haven't done it long ago in the past) in fact I'm sure most good rods have done it at least once in the past.

Now please people continue on I need a few more chuckles as I sit here drinking my beer lol.

[bigblue]

Very well said Rodney!