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[liketofish]

 X2 here. To agree with BFers is a waste of time. They have a 'mental prison' on a legal method to take fish from the Fraser that even CO don't consider a violation because they think fishing has to be by fish biting. We trap fish, spear them, net them. So if the Fraser fish has to be flossed to be effective, so be it. For the Fraser fishery, most fishermen enjoy it and they fish short floating on the lesser systems. That is quite a norm. There are only some newbies doing bb on the vedder causing all the hate.

[banx]

X2 here. To agree with BFers is a waste of time. They have a 'mental prison' on a legal method to take fish from the Fraser that even CO don't consider a violation because they think fishing has to be by fish biting. We trap fish, spear them, net them. So if the Fraser fish has to be flossed to be effective, so be it. For the Fraser fishery, most fishermen enjoy it and they fish short floating on the lesser systems. That is quite a norm. There are only some newbies doing bb on the vedder causing all the hate.

what type of 'bottom bouncing' are these newbs doing on the vedder? the same technique used on the fraser?

[Rantalot]

And the Stave and the Harrison and so on and so on ........ Liketofish I don't know why you cant see the big picture, its not the technique its the mentality behind  it ! It was created to allow the harvest of sockeye by the sport fishing community but has become nothing more then a greedy money fueled monster ! Rules and laws are constantly broken and it needs to end for any hope of fish existing down the road,

[TNAngler]

And the Stave and the Harrison and so on and so on ........ Liketofish I don't know why you cant see the big picture, its not the technique its the mentality behind  it ! It was created to allow the harvest of sockeye by the sport fishing community but has become nothing more then a greedy money fueled monster ! Rules and laws are constantly broken and it needs to end for any hope of fish existing down the road,

I agree the rules are constantly broken.  I can't count the number of people using barbed hooks.  We all know of nets when they aren't supposed to be in the river.  We have all seen people obviously snagging.  Probably all seen people keep fish they shouldn't keep.

This isn't a problem localized to BB though.  Perhaps they are the most numerous fisherman.

Perhaps they should increase the charge for licenses x10 to help pay for more DFO agents.  Close the river down for retention of everything for 4+ years.  Pay the FN to net in the salt instead of the river.  They would need the balls to do that though and I don't think they have it.  Nor do they have the financial incentive to get it done.

[zabber]

We trap fish, spear them, net them.

Your angling licence does not permit you to trap, spear, or net game fish. There are numerous other restrictions on what you can and cannot do. All fish are not created equal, hence the restrictions.

As mentioned, the flossery was established primarily as a harvest/meat fishery. It is my understanding that flossing was selected as the method of choice because sockeye do not bite frequently enough in the silty Fraser to sustain any other type of fishery targeted at them here. As you've identified, problems arise when this angling technique is transferred to other streams. And, as has been elaborated upon ad nauseum, problems also arise when people use the technique at the wrong time in the non-tidal Fraser.


Tight lines,
Z

[liketofish]

I don't mean local fishing. By fishing we don't mean Canadian fishing. Trap fishing may be done for eel in the Newfoundland. People use tidal currents to herd fish into traps or using bait to attract them. Spear fishing is done all over the ocean. Net fishing including scooping up fish is done all over. There are smelt fishermen using scoop nets along the sea walk of Stanley Park. Some fish are caught a certain way, others fish by another way. For goodness sake, them Yankees shoot the jumping carp with bows and arrows. That is a ridiculous way for us but the Yankees have no issue with that. So if DFO allows flossing to be done on the Fraser during openings, why all the hate? If a fisherman for the lack of skill to target springs and continuously hook sockeye, he should stop or change his approach. Just because you can't avoid sockeye because of your poor technique or because you are targeting spring in the wrong river configuration, you cannot say others are lacking the skills to avoid sockeye. There are certain bars with heavy deep water lane which only spring, even only large spring will travel. But I agree, if sockeye is in trouble, we should all stop. Not all BBers are good enough to avoid sockeye, that is the bottom line. But BFers should also stop, because they do hook sockeyes and   after dragging the 1 lb lead slab for the fight and getting exhausted, that sockeye is as well dead, very different from a bb caught sockeye. So don't hide behind excuses. We stop bb, you stop bf. Good for the fish. We should all stop. FN should stop. There are the pinks coming in load. Why hurt the sockeye which are in danger?

[liketofish]

I was sent an e-mail of the rigging for this bottom bouncing.

I would have to agree that it is still going to floss fish majority of the time. I do not dispute that some Sockeye will bite out of instinct, having experienced this myself on the Fraser (by fishing in slow moving water / back eddies I have happened to, by dumb luck hook into a few sockeye that did bite). However, when any long leader + weight heavy enough to bounce the bottom is fished in the current - it's already been explained so many times on here that majority of the time the fish was flossed and didn't bite.

The "secret" colour isn't a secret at all. I have seen this colour, and every colour under the rainbow fished on the fraser - and had many people claim they have the "best" colour for sockeye fishing. Anything works.

I think this angler is still wanting to believe the fish bite; and maybe one or two did; but not anywhere near enough to be considered a majority.

Is there any colour better than green for sockeye?  Perhaps next year you can put the colour to the test and come back to report here whether you can duplicate what the OP of this thread has claimed. If you do, then perhaps it should be revealed so sockeye are taken (if open) in the mouth instead of being flossed. That should then put the dispute of bb to rest. 

[zabber]

... why all the hate?

My understanding was that it's because game fish (e.g. trout, salmon) will bite a lure but that doesn't make sense, as coarse fish will also bite a lure. In any case, you can't bowfish for, or spear, game fish... These fish are typically targeted by fishing flies, lures, bait, etc. and it is considered unnecessary and unsportsmanlike to try to snag them, net them, etc. Flossing/lining is often described as snagging (even if most of the fish are hooked inside the mouth) because you are essentially just placing the hook in the fishes mouth (vs. enticing a strike). One can argue it all day but it will almost certainly continue to be considered a questionable practice.

Again, perhaps the biggest issue some have with bb'ing is that it finds its way into other systems and other fish (e.g. coho in the Vedder), and sensitive stocks are beginning to become affected. "Newbies" learn that flossing IS fishing, and they go to town with it. They see fish abused and think it's okay. Some may instinctively get turned off of "fishing," but for many this will become an outlet for their bloodlust.

As mentioned, you are legally entitled to floss fish on the Fraser, when it's open to fishing; the DFO won't stop you. However, it is up to you to you to decide whether or not to fish this way. If you are aware of the issues and factors at play, your actions will be a reflection of your ethics/morals.

All the best.

[banx]

well then some of you who think all bottom bouncing is flossing need to also educate yourself on some techniques. I've had good intentioned jabronis come up to me and say I'm flossing on a couple of runs on the vedder...... it bothered me.

I am f'ing positive that an 20" leader isnt flossing.... especially using 1/2 oz weight that barely ticks the bottom.....  but it's ok to use a 10' leader on 6' deep water as long as your using a float though..... even though your ripping it, and getting snagged up on the bottom.  those are acceptable fishing practices in the lower mainland.

I have yet to see a bouncing betty and 10' leader used on the vedder.

*edit.  of all the runs I've been to on the vedder/chilliwack.  theres only 2 that I feel are bottom bouncing appropriate. with desired current, depth and visibility.

[troutbreath]

Go fish upstream of the train bridge. You will find some there.

[zabber]

some of you who think all bottom bouncing is flossing

I don't think anyone does at this point. The difference was made clear earlier in the thread.

I have yet to see a bouncing betty and 10' leader used on the vedder.

I saw this in use off one of the Howe Sound BEACHES a couple of weeks ago 

[banx]

I saw this in use off one of the Howe Sound BEACHES a couple of weeks ago 

how is that even possible? 

might be in everyones best interest, including the fish, if getting a fishing license turns into something similar to getting a PAL.  madatory course and test.

I think someone had mentioned this earlier. 

[chris gadsden]

Go fish upstream of the train bridge. You will find some there.

Saw 2 of them today, using pencil lead, no float.

[Bently]

So what about the dufus's that fish Tamahi with their flat float, pencil lead and match head piece of wool, who cares iftheir leader is 20" long, most of them don't even cast, they plunk it out there a few feet through the hole and snag them that way........are they just as worse as the flosser with the betty and 10 ft leader ?? Damn right they are !!! Their maggots, not fishermen.

[TheFishingLad]

I Remember hearing about the rage against the BBers as a kid from my Father. It was strictly long leader lines and weights. Now it seems the rage has spread to Float fisherman with, say, 20" of leader. 10 years from now itll be anyone catching fish is a flosser.