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Author Topic: Bleeding Herring  (Read 14056 times)

chris gadsden

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Bleeding Herring
« on: August 11, 2013, 12:56:07 PM »

Dave

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2013, 02:55:16 PM »

Why is Almo's website down Chris?
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troutbreath

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2013, 05:38:32 PM »

So it ends up coming from farmed Salmon......
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

chris gadsden

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2013, 06:30:55 PM »

Why is Almo's website down Chris?
Had not noticed, maybe you are banned from it. ;D  ;D

Dave

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2013, 06:44:35 PM »

Had not noticed, maybe you are banned from it. ;D  ;D
Well, I was not allowed to post on the site ... salmonaresacred.com

can others access this site?
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chris gadsden

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2013, 07:15:42 PM »

Well, I was not allowed to post on the site ... salmonaresacred.com

can others access this site?
Stop posting and just enjoy your holidays. ;D

chris gadsden

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2013, 02:27:36 PM »


Alexandra Morton

 
"DFO has answered my request that they test the herring from northeastern Vancouver Island. They said they have not received any reports of a die-off, but their crew in the region is going to try to get samples if possible. I appreciate their response and I will be following up with them to see how it goes. I attribute the fast response to all of you who wrote to them. Thank you."

 

















chris gadsden

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troutbreath

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2013, 03:24:44 PM »

"In British Columbia, Canada (BC), aquaculture of finfish in ocean netpens has the potential for pathogen transmission between wild and farmed species due to the sharing of an aquatic environment. "


I guess the frankenfishers don't care to comment on another problem. Maybe take another poke an Morton instead.
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

shuswapsteve

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2013, 10:26:18 PM »

First, maybe read what was actually posted before, TB.

If it is indeed VHS it could very well be the North American strain that is already endemic to the Pacific coast and has already been found and described in Pacific Herring.  With Pacific Herring the virus appears to be more acutely lethal to juvenile fish than adult fish.

When you say "So it ends up coming from farmed Salmon......" does not tell the whole story because all viruses come from the wild.  What happens is that wild fish spread this virus to farmed salmon (similarly to IHNv).  Read this paper which describes it:

Molecular epidemiology of viral haemorrhagic septicaemia virus (VHSV) in British Columbia, Canada, reveals transmission from wild to farmed fish

http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao_oa/d104p093.pdf

It goes hand-in-hand with the paper Chris posted (also a few of the authors are the same).

The paper that Chris posted is one that I had found last night; it suggests farmed Atlantic salmon can develop clinical signs of VHS and it can persist in the tissues for 10 weeks.  VHSV-1Va (the strain in question) occurs annually in farmed salmon in BC and is already tested for along with other viruses like ISAv and IHNv.  It should also be noted that farmed Atlantic salmon appear to have a low virulence to VHSV-IVa with no evidence of farm to farm spread; however, it does not mean we should not understand this virus more and it's possible implications to wild fish (the same way it can be transmitted to farmed fish from an epizootic VHSV event from herring or sardines).  Understanding also applies to activists/biologists.

One thing that needs to be taken away from this work (that Morton will never tell you) is that it is not entirely clear what drives these outbreaks.  This goes for many viruses.  There are likely multiple factors at play that interact with the virus to determine how it will impact its host.  Certain environmental conditions or food availability are possible triggers. Within those two, environmental conditions could impact food availability.  If you read the paper I posted it references 2 studies where VHSV susceptibility in Pacific Herring was highly influenced by diet and temperature.  There is more to it than implying that Atlantic Salmon have VHSV and must be spreading it all over the place.  This is what the author are trying to convey.  What also needs to be mentioned is what is currently done to reduce the potential risk of transmission on fish farms in BC which includes routine testing for VHSV on dead found in pens.  Large scale marine die-offs involving VHSV-1Va are not commonly found where this virus exists.  This and more is discussed in the report I posted.

As for Morton not receiving a timely response I am not sure why; however, I realize that there are not a lot of staff involved in testing fish health samples - and those dedicated staff members are busy with other samples from enhancement facilities and PIPs (Public Involvement Programs) on a very tight budget.  To test samples is not cheap as Morton points out.  Well, it is not cheap either for people in government.  Nonetheless, it would seem reasonable to me to provide Ms Morton some response in a timely fashion instead of letting this linger because what inevitably happens are multiple blog responses from farm critics accusing the department of hiding information.  In actual fact it is more than likely a combination of poor communication by agencies and lack of resources to investigate every sample submitted.  Biologists like Morton also have responsibilities also in this.  Being described as a "BC Marine Biologist" in the article, Ms Morton should describe what is known about VHSV-1Va (sort of like I did) in order to provide the public with as much information as possible - not just have the public fixated on the story about "Bleeding Herring". 

« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 10:30:42 PM by shuswapsteve »
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2013, 08:00:06 AM »

First, maybe read what was actually posted before, TB.

"VHS it could very well be"   

"farmed Atlantic salmon appear to have a low virulence to VHSV-IVa with no evidence of farm to farm spread; however, it does not mean we should not understand this virus more and it's possible implications to wild fish"

"it is not entirely clear what drives these outbreaks"


You should go into politics Stevey.... 

On one hand you don't have any conclusive evidence that feedlots are not killing wild salmon.

Then you dance around that issue by typing a lot of words, hoping that whoever reads it will dismiss the evidence that feedlots are killing wild salmon....

However, by changing my view of politicians, I find them amusing as well....

 ;D
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Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

TNAngler

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2013, 11:46:58 AM »

However, by changing my view of politicians, I find them amusing as well....

Politicians are almost always amusing provided you are not the one they are currently stabbing in the back.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Bleeding Herring
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 12:24:33 PM »

More for Stevie to rebuke and dance with. ;D

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/disease-killing-pacific-herring-threatens-salmon-scientist-warns/article13722113/


Fron Alex

Dear Minister of BC Agriculture:

"I am writing to file an official complaint regarding what I see as misleading comment by your employee, Dr. Gary Marty, to the public in the Globe and Mail today.

In this article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/disease-killing-pacific-herring-threatens-salmon-scientist-warns/article13722113/

Dr. Marty is quoted suggesting that a limited VHS outbreak could be "actually good…" for herring populations in BC.

While Dr. Marty appears to be quoting scientific research, he does not know if this is a "limited outbreak" and he omits the recent and relevant results in a paper co-published by DFO (attached) that reports that VHS can infect Atlantic salmon and "spillback" into wild populations causing 100% mortality in herring in 3/4 trials.

Given that these herring were observed in an area surrounded by Atlantic salmon farms to the south, east and north, it is my opinion that Dr. Marty should have added comment regarding this high relevant and alarming finding by DFO. The CFIA reports there are salmon farms infected with VHS http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/2013/eng/1360390270607/1360390361782

"3.3. Experiment 3: transmission of VHSV from Atlantic salmon to herring
Transmission of VHSV from Atlantic salmon to sympatric Pacific herring was indicated by 100% mortality and recovery of VHSV with titers exceeding 1 106 from herring sentinels in 3 out of 4 immersion replicates."

This paper openly notes that: "herring biomass in salmon netpens can measure in the tons in some salmon farms (unpublished observation, K. Garver)"

I am requesting that DFO and/or the province of BC follow up and correct Dr. Marty's quote in the Globe and Mail. The governments of BC have the responsibility to inform the public accurately about a resource as valuable as herring. It is unethical in my view to suggest that herring bleeding throughout their bodies could be "actually good." I would also like to know how the DFO and the Province of BC, who are responsible for the siting of each salmon farm, have responded to VHS in salmon farms and the recent DFO finding that this can potentially cause 100% mortality in BC herring."

Thank you.

Alexandra Morton