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[typhoon]

Were you really expecting anyone on a fishing forum that prides itself on promoting ethical practices to support poaching? If not then this is just a troll.

[Gooey]

I hate where "Sports Fishing" is going and this is just another great example. 

Well I guess we all now know Mojo is a poacher...heck if he condones someone else doing it you KNOW he does it himself.  BRUTAL!

See, the issue here Mojo is you condoned it.  He knew what was right and you made it OK for him to break the rules...guess what, next time he is in that situation, I bet he doesnt think about it nearly so hard and he just keeps the fish.

I have been fishing fresh water salmon for about 25 years (im 40 now)...what is this "meat fishery" term I keep hearing tossed around.  I saw this dirt bag from Mission (his name is Gus) on the Chehalis this summer snagging red springs...he and his buddies said they wanted to tag out their cards over the next 2 week holiday.  They were snagging fish intentionally...they too called it a MEAT FISHERY...I guess if an individual decides its a MEAT FISHERY then they can chose what rules they want to follow?  Just like the chump fishing roe in the cable pool Monday afternoon when the water spiked. 

"Ah dont worry, its just an urban run with no natural reproduction".... NO, its the ethics and laws that govern sports fishing in BC, not just the rivers/runs we figure the laws should apply too!

Makes me angry that people dont respect the fish, resource, or the laws....its extremely sad to see.

[milo]

I officially protest your action on behalf of Burrard inlet crabs.

[aquapaloosa]

A couple of questions for mojo:
1.  What gives you the right to let someone else keep a illegally caught salmon as you say "I gave him a nice dinner and he was grateful."?
2.  What other ethical decisions are you making about a public resource that are against the law?

It seems to me that you know a good amount about your local fishery and that is fantastic but maybe your ego is getting in the way of your ability to make a basic ethical judgment.  Its kinda along the lines of the more you know the more you know you don't know.

I think this is a great post and while it is a judgment error IMO it is a topic that should be discussed.  Just because you are knowledgeable about a fishery doest give you the right to make such calls.  The rules are the rules.

You will have many opportunities in the future to make better calls on the river and all the good ethical calls you make following this one WILL make a difference.

Tight lines.

[Easywater]

Consider this:

I was fishing on a small flow for Coho and saw a fellow catch and bonk one.
It turns out he was a novice and bonked a WILD coho (only hatchery retention was open).

It was pointed out to him that he should not have killed the fish.
He ended up sliding the dead fish back into the river.

While a "waste" of a fish, I believe that this was the right thing to do.

[MoeJKU]

Your analogy doesnt apply to this scenario as much as it does to someone who is actually harming the fish run. One person who takes a fish, be it mouth, tail, fin, doesnt matter, still takes one fish. I understand the idea of survival of the fittest, and that fish does not deserve to be taken out of the life cycle early, but even so, its one fish. If it were 20, 30, 500 fish, that will effect the health of the run. I would hardly say the guy who kept a snagged fish is evil, but simply selfish, maybe even greedy, but evil? I think thats more than a little extreme.

So what happens if 500 people  act in the exact same manner. Oh its just me taking a fish i snagged in the tail?
It all adds up we don't need to promote people for doing this because then monkey see monkey do attitude comes out and we are even worse than where we are today.
Its still called one word in my books, poaching. I know that may sound harsh but it is what it is. And the rules are meant to be followed, there is a reason they are  there .

So evil maybe not, but you encouraged and promoted illegal fishing activities. Which in my books is wrong.

Oh and if it is the river i think you are talking about, it used to have a very big wild fish return, and now it is non existent, because people said oh its wild just take it i wont tell. same sort of thing.
 If someone said that to me on the river i would want to bonk them on the head more than the fish.

[adriaticum]

Wrong.
Punishable offense.

[TNAngler]

Consider this:

I was fishing on a small flow for Coho and saw a fellow catch and bonk one.
It turns out he was a novice and bonked a WILD coho (only hatchery retention was open).

It was pointed out to him that he should not have killed the fish.
He ended up sliding the dead fish back into the river.

While a "waste" of a fish, I believe that this was the right thing to do.

Bet he learned his lesson and won't make that mistake again whereas if he had brought it home he might not have.

[salmonlover]

So you told the guy you wouldn't say anything and now you've gone back on your word and we all know about it! LOL:))

 hotrod

thats what i was wondering to hotrod. which makes me question if the event really happened or someone trying to stir they old pot on fwr

[silver ghost]

My question is... what would you guys do if you worked at a lodge and no matter how much you try and educate people, guys who come to canada for 4 days on a fishing trip simply cannot know all of the rules... so many cases of keeping salmon in excess of daily quota, bonking undersize, oversize, closed species... do you yell at them and tell them how horrible they are, or call DFO on them and have them fined?

They leave the country tomorrow, and don't return for a year. But when they get back to their home country (usually USA), they tell their friends about what a great time they have had fishing and encourage them to come next year, injecting over $1000 per day into the local economy. If you call DFO and have them come down and give them a fine, they might not want to return, and may tell their friends about how scary of an experience they had being approached by fishery officers with guns, being humiliated in front of a large group of guests and fined for keeping a sockeye, for example, when they thought it was "one of the ones they could keep"...

What about the couple that lives in a remote coastal community without grocery stores, and has depended on recreationally harvesting halibut to get them through the winter, but after this year's changes to the daily/annual quota, the amount they can now keep has been reduced to half.


The correct answer is the same... nevertheless it illustrates the challenges our fisheries managers face on a daily basis... who do you fine, who do you let off...

[Rodney]

Wow, Un believable that you would actually ask if that was right or wrong! With that kind of attitude youve probably poached a load of fish in your life. Please stay in your own country and do not fish bc waters.

What would you expect from the guy who claimed all the sockeyes he flossed in the fraser actually bit though?

Spend a bit more time reading the posts before typing, you're mixing up the posters.

[MoeJKU]

My question is... what would you guys do if you worked at a lodge and no matter how much you try and educate people, guys who come to canada for 4 days on a fishing trip simply cannot know all of the rules... so many cases of keeping salmon in excess of daily quota, bonking undersize, oversize, closed species... do you yell at them and tell them how horrible they are, or call DFO on them and have them fined?

They leave the country tomorrow, and don't return for a year. But when they get back to their home country (usually USA), they tell their friends about what a great time they have had fishing and encourage them to come next year, injecting over $1000 per day into the local economy. If you call DFO and have them come down and give them a fine, they might not want to return, and may tell their friends about how scary of an experience they had being approached by fishery officers with guns, being humiliated in front of a large group of guests and fined for keeping a sockeye, for example, when they thought it was "one of the ones they could keep"...

What about the couple that lives in a remote coastal community without grocery stores, and has depended on recreationally harvesting halibut to get them through the winter, but after this year's changes to the daily/annual quota, the amount they can now keep has been reduced to half.


The correct answer is the same... nevertheless it illustrates the challenges our fisheries managers face on a daily basis... who do you fine, who do you let off...

First off i don't think americans would be scared of fisheries approaching them with a hand gun. have you ever run into their conservation officers down there. Second year they spend money, that doesn't mean it goes into fishing related ideas. And if they are fishing with guides and the guide should say no thats not a keeper. And if so the guiding company should get fined.

No matter what its the law. What would the Americans do if you got caught doing something down there related to their wildlife?

[wizard]

Definitely wrong not even a question. 
Like someone said that guy commited an illegal act and you promoted poaching... I wouldn't even consider that guy a fisherman, he's a poacher. 
Put your head on strait, release any fish you snag intentional or not. You can't just justify keeping a snagged fish because you think it's going to just die and rot anyway. 
grow up and grow some ethics.  The river needs more people who will do the right thing when noone is around, if you're not willing to do that, take up a different sport the rivers don't need you.

[JPW]

Pathetic and wrong.  I say pathetic because to me ethics say a lot about the type of person you truly are; you know, when no one is looking.  In your case both you and the gentleman who retained the fish decided that without someone holding you to a higher standard breaking the law was acceptable.  You even found ways to justify it because of the other fish that were caught fairly.  I wonder what other morally questionable acts you could find a way to justify?  The reality is a nice chrome Coho was not caught fairly and therefore should not have been kept.  Last year I fished the cap with a buddy of mine and we got into a number of coho, but all wild.  Finally as we were about to leave my buddy gets into a nice one that goes ballistic.  When I first saw it, I swear it was hooked in the yap, but by the time it came in it was tangled and foul hooked.  Guess what - it went on to swim (or die) another day.  Even if it ended up a mouldy dead zombie, it gave back to the river!  Then again I guess you wonder why we didn't just bonk all the "wild" ones anyway, I mean really they are just a hatchery fish that didn't get clipped right?

If someone is fishing in a meat fishery, and they want to keep ONE fish for dinner, then hooked in the mouth, hooked in the tail, it doesnt matter, as its no longer sport or recreation, but simply meat harvesting. Again, these are just my thoughts, and I dont encourage poaching, but at the end of the day, all the snaggers in Canada probably cant match the harm a couple nets do.

I really don't understand this acceptance of "meat fisheries".  Ian made a good post in another thread about how everyone brings their own perceptions into an argument and you've done just that, so I'll offer the other side.  I view the fishery I believe the original poster is referring to as a sport fishery.  I believe that purchase of my license allows me to angle for fish in a sporting manner.  I enjoy keeping the odd fish and I take pride in enticing a fish to take my offering. I take offence to others that circumvent the rules in an effort to retain more fish.  I'm annoyed by (and report) anyone who illegally retains a fish and I'm sick and tired of people justifying their actions and the actions of others because "it's just a meat fishery".  Last I checked, I don't (and can't) purchase a license to harvest fish for sustenance and I doubt you do either.  I am as entitled as you are to go out and enjoy a recreational fishery and providing I'm not tangling line with a trawler in a commercial opening I shouldn't have to compete with idiots intentionally snagging and retaining!  Further to that, while I agree nets do far more damage, how does that have ANY relevance on a discussion on ethics?  It certainly shouldn't be justification for poaching, which I guess you're ok with, but just don't encourage?

[Sandman]

My question is... what would you guys do if you worked at a lodge and no matter how much you try and educate people, guys who come to canada for 4 days on a fishing trip simply cannot know all of the rules... so many cases of keeping salmon in excess of daily quota, bonking undersize, oversize, closed species... do you yell at them and tell them how horrible they are, or call DFO on them and have them fined?

Actually was in that situation.  I worked a summer at the QCL in a year we had a total ban on coho retention.  We had all the guests well educated in how to tell the difference between a coho and a chinook, before sending them out on the water (not all paid the extra for a guide), yet day after day we had guests coming back to the docks with coho.  I had to politely inform them, under the gaze of the attending Haida Watchmen, that they had killed a coho, show them the white gums again and then showed them the black gums of their springs and then toss the coho off the dock to feed the crabs.  No, we did not have a DFO officer present, and the watchmen knew how hard we were trying to teach these guests how to properly ID fish, but they all tried to plead ignorance.

No one here is saying that the guy needs to be fined or even yelled at, they are saying he should not be encouraged to bonk it though.  The Watchmen were visibly disappointed in our guests behavior, but they did not insist on charges or fines being levied on the guests, but you can be damn sure they would have crucified me if I had advised the guests to keep the illegal catch.