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[zap brannigan]

Every time, sometimes I even cry a bit.

[RalphH]

I almost 100% guarantee you in court that you could easily do what Ian did and have it not deemed illegal (and get off on charges). If you gave the guy fair warning and told him he was in your casting radius (which is idiotic if you see someone fly fishing), it is their own fault. You can prove you did your due diligence by warning them, and they didn't move. It isn't your job to move, especially if you were there first.

I don't think due diligence has any currency in a criminal case of assault. BTW asserting that you can 100% guarantee something could happen  is a contradiction in terms. In a circumstance like that where they change to large weighted fly specifically as part of a non violent altercation then let's say, blind a person in an eye that's a serious assault and the circumstances would have to be pretty ripe to to get an acquittal. Even if they did it could go to civil court and the cost of an eye would be pretty high. I'd dare say a fly angler could be liable even if they caused such an injury by accident with no intent. Warning someone or even the fact someone going near a person engaging the such activity may just reduce the blame not the fact of liability. At the final point a person has an obligation to if possible stop an activity that could cause harm to someone else.

[Fish Assassin]

Low-holing can become an Olympic sport.

[brownmancheng]

I almost 100% guarantee you in court that you could easily do what Ian did and have it not deemed illegal (and get off on charges). If you gave the guy fair warning and told him he was in your casting radius (which is idiotic if you see someone fly fishing), it is their own fault. You can prove you did your due diligence by warning them, and they didn't move. It isn't your job to move, especially if you were there first.

Bragging about it however, then you would probably have some assault charges laid. I'm sure Ian though wouldn't be bragging about it on a forum if it was going to court. 

I personally, walk away when some one low holes me. The Vedder is a joke, expect to get low holed, it's just the way it is out there. There honestly isn't enough water any more for people to have a run to themselves each, someone is always going to walk in somewhere. Take a note of where the fish was hooked below you, walk away, and go catch a fish there later. Low holing doesn't even bother me any more as I've caught more than my fair share behind people anyway.

And yes really. If someone walks below you... fair game. If people low hole me badly enough on a river other than the vedder I do the same. Or cast my spoon on it's normal swing, hope and pray I catch their gear when they cast over me, and cut it off 

You are not a lawyer obviously. The "I warned him is not an excuse". It actually proves your guilt by showing you had knowledge of what you were doing and potential consequences but still continued with intent. 
I am going to start punching the air and walking forward and if you are in the way then it's your fault. 
Anyways no point bating a dead horse on this one guys(the great corking debate). Some people feel they are entitled to certain things that may be common courtesy or what not, but, if it's not illegal and you don't like it sometimes you just have to walk away

[Every Day]

It's no where near the same thing as walking forward punching the air in front of you. And if you tell someone that you would recommend they move away because there is a chance they could get hurt, that does not put blame on you. You are not TELLING them you are going to hurt them, you are giving them fair warning.

I can do the same thing you guys are (comparing it to something not remotely relative to the situation). How about a guy walking out onto a normal road gets hit and is going to sue the driver because the driver didn't stop. In any case, a person should be responsible for their own safety, you shouldn't be responsible for them if they can't think for themselves.

I in fact wouldn't even warn the guy, I would keep casting as if I never saw him. If he got hooked, it's his own fault. No one should be standing anywhere near someone flinging a hook around. I'm pretty sure you would have an extremely hard time getting an assault charge pressed or any lawsuit if you got hooked by a fly angler (unless they were directly casting at you). Try proving to a judge that you were in the right to be standing 10 feet away from a spey angler, when you know they need at least that much room to cast (any person CAN observe this). Remember, you are innocent until proven guilty beyond doubt.

[rgm]

For the record, I don't care if he (or you) would get off in court or not. The fact is, he and several other people (you included) , have already admitted that they would do it on purpose and lie about it later. The fact that you would intentionally hurt another human being over a small piece of water that may or may not have a fish in it that you may or may not catch, is sickening.  All you people who would do this sort of thing are no better than the people who will assault someone in a store on black Friday to get a good deal. Disgusting display of the worst of human nature.  Low holing is not an excuse to attempt to blind another human being. Period. If think this is ok, I suggest you seek help.
I sure hope nobody you care about is ever on the receiving end of something like this.

[ByteMe]

For the record, I don't care if he (or you) would get off in court or not. The fact is, he and several other people (you included) , have already admitted that they would do it on purpose and lie about it later. The fact that you would intentionally hurt another human being over a small piece of water that may or may not have a fish in it that you may or may not catch, is sickening.  All you people who would do this sort of thing are no better than the people who will assault someone in a store on black Friday to get a good deal. Disgusting display of the worst of human nature.  Low holing is not an excuse to attempt to blind another human being. Period. If think this is ok, I suggest you seek help.
I sure hope nobody you care about is ever on the receiving end of something like this.

Amen....don't let the hype of a few cyber bullies deter you rgm,it does not happen in all rivers,it unfortunately is the Vedder mentality,I used to fish it 25 yrs ago and it was no different.Most of steelheaders are real nice and helpful people,you know the 80/20 rule in life...is that 20% that gives everyone a bad name,as you can read alot of people on this thread are against the actions of the few...I suggest go start fishing and ask if you are not sure,majority of steelheaders on the river will be more than happy to guide you along

[Every Day]

Low holing is not an excuse to attempt to blind another human being. Period. If think this is ok, I suggest you seek help.

I wouldn't ever intentionally try to blind another person, ever.

Would I continue fishing if they invaded the area I need to cast? Yep. Would I give them fair warning I need that area to cast? If they looked new - yes I would.

My point is that if you are within 20-30 feet of any type of spey or fly angler, you're probably not the smartest person on the river, and the fly fisherman shouldn't have to move every time some one does that to them (it would be moving every 10-15 minutes, especially during salmon). If you want to get within casting space of a fly angler, then you're risking the fact you may get a hook somewhere, whether they want to do it intentionally or not.

[ByteMe]

Every Day..............I think he was refering to Ian Forbes post about putting on a weighted salmon fly and casting it at  someone's head

[brownmancheng]

It's no where near the same thing as walking forward punching the air in front of you. And if you tell someone that you would recommend they move away because there is a chance they could get hurt, that does not put blame on you. You are not TELLING them you are going to hurt them, you are giving them fair warning.

I can do the same thing you guys are (comparing it to something not remotely relative to the situation). How about a guy walking out onto a normal road gets hit and is going to sue the driver because the driver didn't stop. In any case, a person should be responsible for their own safety, you shouldn't be responsible for them if they can't think for themselves.

Wrong again, you are in control of the motor vehicle/ Spey rod it is your responsibility to ensure you don't cause harm and take all reasonable measures to avoid it. If someone is crossing the road be it jaywalking etc.. or within your casting area it is your responsibility to stop. You can't go around hitting ppl Bc they shouldn't be there.

Dan, I normally look forward to reading your posts as they are usually interesting and informative. However, I feel you may have missed the mark on this one

[ByteMe]

This is getting more interesting than The Jerry Springer Show

[chronic_topdawg]

I fish here tooooooo.

[charles]

it almost seems like this is turning into the wild wild west.  A bunch of fisherman thinks they can assault someone because for some rules that they think everyone should follow.  And this is supposed to teach new fisherman the proper way to fish.  They come here looking for information and they see standing or fishing below someone can get your eye hook or face rip by fisherman above. 

[Every Day]

If someone is crossing the road be it jaywalking etc.. or within your casting area it is your responsibility to stop. You can't go around hitting ppl Bc they shouldn't be there.

Fair enough.

I'm simply stating that it would be VERY hard, if not impossible (going from experience in legislation, writing up legal reports for classes, and attending court cases) to get a conviction on someone for hooking you with a spey or fly rod on a river, UNLESS they were seen casting directly at you.

If they are in your area, and you hit them with your anchor or back cast, that is not something you were intentionally doing. Next time I see the judge I have contact with through school, I'll ask if she would charge someone under these circumstances. Knowing her, she'd probably turn to the guy who got hooked and ask what he was doing standing there when he knew the spey angler needed more room. You can't expect someone to move and stop fishing just because you want to fish there and need their space.

NOTE: I am only commenting on the fly fishing/spey fishing aspect of this thread. I would never condone hucking a spoon or a float fishing set up at a boat, person, etc. In that case, you know what you're doing and you really don't need the room. My point of view is from the fly/spey angler who NEEDS room to fish. Although some here would intentionally cast as someone with their fly rod - it would be hard to prove just because of what fly fishing is. I wouldn't do it, but I know other people (friends included) would. 

This is my opinion, not what I do. I have never cast at any one, and generally I leave without even saying anything. I have a couple times tossed rocks on my way out, and have once or twice cut line when someone has cast over me (mostly due to not wanting to sit there and untangle a huge mess of braid twisted by a spoon).

I'm simply stating - if you're in a fly/spey caster's area, you're an idiot and you're potentially going to get hurt. In the case you do get hurt, it was your own fault. End of story.

Getting back to the original post - IT'S THE FREAKING VEDDER. As my other post said... not even enough room for every angler to have his own piece of water any more.

[wonder]