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[Robert_G]

The numbers are better than they have been in years for early July. Even back when we were allowed to bar fish in Early July, there were some years with numbers way less than this year. The upcoming opening in the Fraser should have the size restriction immediately cancelled once we are fishing, but we all know the chances of that happening. I just don't get it....

[typhoon]

Whack 'em all. Then talk about the good old days when there are none.

[dereke]

Agreed, one good start to a season should not cause a change in conservation. Best err on the side of caution. A couple cycles of good numbers and if would understand your complaint.

[Robert_G]

I agree with conservation, but lets look at the facts.
The facts are that over 6000 Chinook have been reported kept by the natives from the mouth up to Sawmill Creek. Never mind what they don't report. You probably don't want to find out anyway. As always, I back up my statements with factual evidence. Here is a link to those numbers.

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/ChinookKeptCatch.html

Even in the glory days...there isn't a chance that bar fishermen would have bonked a fraction of that number by early July....In fact, bar fishermen wouldn't even have bonked a fraction of that by October.

So if you're happy doing 'your part' in conservation....do some math and realize that until you study the facts, you remain unknowing about what is really going on.
And once you DO realize the facts, you will come to an understanding that we should be out there bar fishing right now...and in doing so, not making a dent in the Chinook population compared to the 6000+ fish already taken by the natives.

Again....sick and tired of the politics...and really disappointed with the people here who are in denial about the politics that are taking place. Look at the numbers and realize we are being trampled on like always.

[CohoJake]

This makes me wonder - is there anywhere we can find the total (estimated) sport catch from the Fraser for various years by species?  I wonder how many springs were taken by anglers in 2010 and 2011.

[Wool]

  Natives killing fish for their own needs and economy are quite different from us guys fishing for the enjoyment. The videos from the Cap make me sick, but, it's the politics and you have to suck it up.

[dereke]

The native issue I can do nothing about. You kind of are putting words in my mouth here. I am aware of everything that you speak of and don't disagree. I know that the nets take many more fish than the sporties can. If you do as much "factual" searching as you say you do you must know that you aren't going to change it either so waiting until there are better numbers for a few cycles in a row before lifting conservation for the common sporty is how we can help ensure that the numbers are truly coming back and all the different runs are healthy or at the very least doing better. That is how "we" who say we care about the fish the most and blame the other parties involved as being motivated by greed make our difference no? I hear your frustration trust me I do but us as the self appointed stewards of the river, we should lead by example IMO.

[RalphH]

The 'politics' is long settled. The Natives have first rights to fish. Unless you are very young there is zero chance of this changing in your lifetime. Many of you need to act like adults and accept this.

[liketofish]

No wonder DFO don't care about much what sporties say. We are the willing & obedient herd and them natives set up roadblocks. LOL.

[Robert_G]

The 'politics' is long settled. The Natives have first rights to fish. Unless you are very young there is zero chance of this changing in your lifetime. Many of you need to act like adults and accept this.

Typical comments from Ralph. Basically you are saying that the natives need their 6000 + fish FIRST....and then the bar fishermen can go out and get their few hundred that they take every season....if we're lucky.

Have you ever considered why they don't seem to mind us going out in August for springs.
Every year the Fraser gets warmer and warmer, and just as we get our opening sometime every August....that just happens to be when the water gets too warm and the fish get stressed. Last year we were kicked out just as the main run of summer springs came through because of warm water. Us getting kicked off the river in August is getting more and more common.

Its getting to the point where the natives can go out each year catch their 30000 +springs (average number over the last several years for the entire season from the mouth to Alexandra), and the bar fishermen get left to fish during the too warm water in August and then get kicked out anyway.

The most reliable numbers I got were that the sporties took less than 200 Chinook out of the Fraser (from the mouth to below Alexandra) before Labour day weekend last year. The natives got over 20000 Chinook in the same time. That is 1 fish for us out of every 100 for them.

If you're ok with that Ralph...fine...its your opinion, but I can speak for many of us here that we are NOT ok with this. What is happening here is pure discrimination and mismanagement at its worst of a resource that belongs to ALL of us....not just a select minority group.

[typhoon]

The order of priority is set in the constitution:
1. conservation
2. natives
3. rec and commercial

Rec will never move ahead of 1) and 2). Feel free to lobby your local MP to change the consitution.

It might be more productive to lobby DFO to enforce the non-commercial nature of the native fishery.
It should be treated like prostitution - go after the John's - take the vehicle of anyone buying a fish from the natives, for example.

[TNAngler]

The selling of the fish isn't even the concern for me.  My concern is the under reporting of catch and the poaching of netting while not open that concern me.  I don't care if they sell every single one they legally catch but if they only report catching 30k which is their portion but in reality they caught 90k-120k, that is what will kill the system.  If the system can handle them catching 30k, then let them catch 30k and sell every last one of them.  Just make damn sure they don't catch much more than that.  You will always have some overage likely, but within a couple thousand should be easily obtained with proper monitoring.

 My dad used to commercial fish in WA.  The way it usually worked out, sockeye paid the expenses for the boat, coho and chinook were almost impossible to catch where they were opened, but chum was where any profit you got for the year was earned.  One year, the sockeye catch was lower than normal so guys were hurting already.  The natives opened up for chum for 2 days and their total allotment for that year was X (I don't remember, 2 million as an example).  By the end of day 2, they were at about 90% of their total allotment for the year (1.9 million as an example).  They decided to open back up to catch the remaining 10% of their allotment, by opening up for the next 3 days.  Surprise surprise, by the end of the opening, they had caught 250% of their allotment and so the non-natives were told that they couldn't fish for chum that year because there weren't enough.  Many boats went under because of it. Oh, sure, they said they would make it up over the next 10 years, but that never happened either.

[Kenwee]

The natives are netting and selling the fish they get. The only way to solve overfishing is to fine the buyers heavily and confiscate their vehicles. At the rate this is going on, the fish will become extinct.

[StillAqua]

The natives have the right, affirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada in January, to fish and sell their catch, within certain limits. Expect confusion on the Fraser and DFO leaving the little guys alone.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-first-nations-commercial-fishery-rights-cant-be-challenged-in-appeal-ruling/article16613104/

"It is the second time the high court has rejected a federal attempt to appeal a B.C. Supreme Court judgment, supported by the B.C. Court of Appeal, that affirmed the rights of native people to sell their catch."

"However, Justice Garson said that while the bands have a right to fish and to sell their catch, that does not mean they have a right to do so “on a large industrial scale.”

"She ruled the bands have to negotiate with the DFO because their right must be “accommodated and exercised without jeopardizing Canada’s legislative objectives and societal interests in regulating the fishery.”"

[TNAngler]

The natives are netting and selling the fish they get. The only way to solve overfishing is to fine the buyers heavily and confiscate their vehicles. At the rate this is going on, the fish will become extinct.

No, this isn't the only way because there will always be buyers even if they have to ship them overseas.

Get the tribal counsels on board, agree on catch limits, agree on well published days they are allowed to fish, heavy enforcement and if someone is caught fishing when not open, the tribe pulls that person's right to fish, forever.  If caught fishing illegally a second time, jail time and all fishing equipment confiscated and sold with the proceeds going half to the tribe, half to salmon enhancement projects.  Put this information into the newspapers and on the TV news saying it happened so word gets out.

How many people would have to get thrown in jail and everything they own for fishing taken from them before word got out that it isn't something you want to do anymore?  I would guess at most 1 per tribe (to test that the tribe would do it) but I would bet if the tribes agreed, that it would probably only be a handful before word got out.