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[The_Roe_Man]

Nice read.  I sometimes fish with an indicator but more often withought.  My eyes get tired looking at the thing the whole time and it is a pain to cast with.  I also only fish with bead head chronomids.  Simple to tie and get the fly down.

[otto]

i polefish (30' pole) with beadhead chiro's on the line....has produced some rather large trout...........

[Trout Slayer]

i polefish (30' pole) with beadhead chiro's on the line....has produced some rather large trout...........

Very interesting otto, never heard of it being done like that. How do you control the depth and have a natural occurance as if the Pupa is emerging? Rod holders?

[otto]

i polefish (30' pole) with beadhead chiro's on the line....has produced some rather large trout...........

Very interesting otto, never heard of it being done like that. How do you control the depth and have a natural occurance as if the Pupa is emerging? Rod holders?

two ways to do it:

1. attach a 1/2 - 1 ounce weight on the very end of the line, and about 1 - 2 feet up tie on a bead head Chironomid .  push out the pole so the weight sits on the bottom and the fly just up from the weeds. keep the line almost taut.  it looks like a Chironomid climbing up a water weed tendril.  jiggle the line every so often. very effective - similar to "dropshot" style of soft bait fishing

2.  other method is to simply tie on the bead head chironomid to the end of the line (2 lb test)  and  cast out, letting sink to the bottom. simply lift up the pole tip slightly and move over a foot or so at a time.

 

[d_w]

Very interesting way of fishing a chironomid

[otto]

same method works well with any sinking type fly, i seem to consistently nail trout with a deer hair fly (bunch of strands of deer hair tied near the eye of the hook, drop of cement to seal it).

also use a 3" strand of scraggly wool (burnt orange or red) tied to a hook to imitate a red worm or blood worm.

[FlyNut]

Got a "dumb" question.

What's the point of using fancy fly equipment for Chironomids (is it just to say we are "fly fishing").   Seems to me a cheapie spinning set up would do a better job in this area.

Comments?

[Flyfisher]

Hi Normfish,

Was that you with your family out in that big blue-sided boat?
I was in my small 9 foot Habercraft Flyfisher, and most of our friends were also in that bay. We did good fishing 15-17 feet of water with big bombers right off the bottom of that big mud flat. Brown seemed to be the colour of the week (rootbeer and bronze), and we all had so many double headers it was getting out of hand! The bite seemed to die off around 8 o' clock, for us.
We came home just last Friday, so I would have seen you Thursday...?

Great read, Aaron!

Good Luck!

[Flyfisher]

Hi Norm,

No we didn't get any fish pictures from Tunkwa, but we did from the lakes we fished before it.
My biggest fish at Tunkwa was just over 20 inches. How about you?
The weather was good too, and it's great because the heat doesn't seem to effect Tunkwa or Leighton through all the years we've fished it!

[TtotheE]

A quick question on retrieves:

When doing the pain stakingly slow hand twist retrieve while working a chironomid pattern on a floating line and long leader(indicator or not), are you:

a) imitating the slow accent of the pupa to the surface?
b) covering an area at the same depth but moving the chironomid slowly towards you so not to spook fish?

I can kinda see a non-weighted pattern SLOWLY sinking to the right depth then rising to the surface with the retrieve because the retrieve is faster than the sink rate(if this is the case).  With a weighted pattern I don't see the pattern rising since the sink rate of a bead head would pretty much keep it at that depth, (unless you're working a full sink line vertically)  thus keeping the fly at the same depth but just moving horizontally in the water column. I've also tried the retrieve then wait technique where you'd make the fly rise, or move horizontally/diagonally then wait for the fly to sink or stop moving sideways. I've never really questioned the various techniques available but was just curious as to what my fly was doing in the water.

Thanks in advance!

Tak

P.S. my favorite technique is w/o an indicator with a bead headed pattern as its so fun "feeling" the take!

[Trout Slayer]

A quick question on retrieves:

When doing the pain stakingly slow hand twist retrieve while working a chironomid pattern on a floating line and long leader(indicator or not), are you:

a) imitating the slow accent of the pupa to the surface?
b) covering an area at the same depth but moving the chironomid slowly towards you so not to spook fish?

I can kinda see a non-weighted pattern SLOWLY sinking to the right depth then rising to the surface with the retrieve because the retrieve is faster than the sink rate(if this is the case).  With a weighted pattern I don't see the pattern rising since the sink rate of a bead head would pretty much keep it at that depth, (unless you're working a full sink line vertically)  thus keeping the fly at the same depth but just moving horizontally in the water column. I've also tried the retrieve then wait technique where you'd make the fly rise, or move horizontally/diagonally then wait for the fly to sink or stop moving sideways. I've never really questioned the various techniques available but was just curious as to what my fly was doing in the water.

Thanks in advance!

Tak

P.S. my favorite technique is w/o an indicator with a bead headed pattern as its so fun "feeling" the take!

While doing the hand twist retrieve on a floating line with a long leader and no strike indicator. It does both: Imitates the Chironomid Pupa emerging to the surface and is covering an area in the body of water at the same depth and with each slow hand twist it makes it rise gently and fall like the natural occurance. It also is very dependant on how the hand twist retrieve method is being done. (At which speed and movement)

While doing the hand twist retrieve on a floating line with a long leader and a strike indicator it generally only covers an area of water after being casted out because the main idea of adding a strike indicator is to control the depth at which the angler wants the fly to stay at and the movement from this is horizontal. A good way of setting the proper depth for the strike indicator is attaching a 1 or 2 ounce lead weight on the end of the fly and letting the fly sink to the bottom of the lake. While doing this make the strike indicator sit on the surface and once the weight touches bottom put one finger where the strike indicator was and then move it to the appropriate distance you want the fly to sit at and lock in place.

A non-weighted pattern will SLOWLY sink to the depth but it lessens the amount of time for the fly to be in the approximate wanted zone. With a weighted pattern the pattern will rise and fall like the natural occurance. This is only imitated without an indicator because as noted before the strike indicator is meant to keep the fly in a desired depth zone and slowly cruise closer to the angler with every gentle retrieve.

The main reason trout take a fly standing or slowly moving horizontal with the indicator is because it stands out from a natural Pupa's imitation of just rise straight to the top and slowly pausing at times vertically.

All in all to give the best presentation it is without the strike indicator as it gives the natural emergence.

-Trout Slayer

[FlyNut]

While doing the hand twist retrieve on a floating line with a long leader and no strike indicator...

Question: Would you not dramatically reduce yoru "feel" for the strike having a floating line.   It seems to me a straight path to the fly can be much easier achieved with a wet line.

[Trout Slayer]

While doing the hand twist retrieve on a floating line with a long leader and no strike indicator...

Question: Would you not dramatically reduce yoru "feel" for the strike having a floating line.   It seems to me a straight path to the fly can be much easier achieved with a wet line.

Must be a really good fisherman to notice the differences between with those 2 types of method. (Full Sink and Full Floating) Ideally No because the full sink ya of course, it would make you feel the strike right away, but the same goes for using a full floating. When the full floating is being retrieved the line is kept tight in a straight motion. So when there is a hit the line will lock up right away and the fisherman will feel it instantly. If the line were to be left sitting slack with no tension the fisherman would lose lot's of hits to the fly. When a trout takes the Chironomid it will mainly inhale it and with the feel the fisherman can set the hook. When recieving a hit with the strike indicator the fish will sometimes fool the fisherman by tapping at it ever so slightly/others will hit hard and fully submerge it.

The best way to learn all of this is experimenting with the different methods and chosing which is easiest to fish with.

[TtotheE]

thanks Trout Slayer! certainly clarifies things.

I've had trout violently strike, gently sip, and simply inhale chironomids.  With a hand twist retrieve you are pretty much constantly removing slack from the line and thus feel even the slightest of takes.  And when it comes to presentation, after a long hard internal battle I have come to terms with the fact that slower IS better(retrieves).  A hand twist retrieve can keep you busy and allow you to accurately change the speed at which your fly is travelling, but since most spinning reels have some very nice ratios to them, a slow retrieve can be quite difficult.
I tried a hand twist in a filled bathroom sink once with a nymph and watched in horror as I saw how FAST I was retrieving!!  As I've seen naturals accend to the surface or swim towards shore before, I slowed my retrieve next outting and it changed things dramatically.
I also frequent a lake where entry into the lake is forbidden. Casting out with an indicator allows me to fish a certain depth but not be physically right on top of where my fly is.

But can it also be done with a spinning outfit? Certainly! You could work a vertical presentation from a float tube or boat but slllllllowly raising your rod tip out of the water and reeling in that raised line while lowering your tip again (kinda gives you a visual as to how fast you're retrieving).  Or if you're super diligent, sllllllowly reel in the line at the speed of a natural.  With a float/indicator presentation, you'd be limited as to how deep you could present your fly as casting will become quite difficult after the leader length from float exeeds rod tip to water clearance.  But you could definitely toss it out there, and just reel in the slack line and wait for the float/bobber to dive.  I dunno if that helps you at all FlyNut LOL

I've read before that you should set the hook with the fly line using the mending hand as opposed to striking with the rod. This allows you to keep the fly in generally the same location in the case that the fish is "slapping" your fly with say, its tail.  I may be confused with dry fly fishing however, because I know fish at times with attempt to "drown" an insect before attacking a second time.  

Anyways, to get kinda off-topic,  I've had to cut off flies due to deep hooking using chironomids.  I feel this may be when the fish are inhaling their food as opposed to sipping selectively.  Or am I simply missing the lighter initial take and setting the hook too late?  I've read that when releasing a fish that is deep hooked it will survive better if the hook is left and the line cut, so that the hook will either natually slip out or rust out, as opposed to goin in for open mouth surgery with forceps and forcefully removing the fly.  
I leave the fly in the mouth and release the fish in hopes that the fish will grow to become much larger and wiser and more fun to catch another day.  Comments?

[Trout Slayer]

thanks Trout Slayer! certainly clarifies things.

I've had trout violently strike, gently sip, and simply inhale chironomids.  With a hand twist retrieve you are pretty much constantly removing slack from the line and thus feel even the slightest of takes.  And when it comes to presentation, after a long hard internal battle I have come to terms with the fact that slower IS better(retrieves).  A hand twist retrieve can keep you busy and allow you to accurately change the speed at which your fly is travelling, but since most spinning reels have some very nice ratios to them, a slow retrieve can be quite difficult.
I tried a hand twist in a filled bathroom sink once with a nymph and watched in horror as I saw how FAST I was retrieving!!  As I've seen naturals accend to the surface or swim towards shore before, I slowed my retrieve next outting and it changed things dramatically.
I also frequent a lake where entry into the lake is forbidden. Casting out with an indicator allows me to fish a certain depth but not be physically right on top of where my fly is.

But can it also be done with a spinning outfit? Certainly! You could work a vertical presentation from a float tube or boat but slllllllowly raising your rod tip out of the water and reeling in that raised line while lowering your tip again (kinda gives you a visual as to how fast you're retrieving).  Or if you're super diligent, sllllllowly reel in the line at the speed of a natural.  With a float/indicator presentation, you'd be limited as to how deep you could present your fly as casting will become quite difficult after the leader length from float exeeds rod tip to water clearance.  But you could definitely toss it out there, and just reel in the slack line and wait for the float/bobber to dive.  I dunno if that helps you at all FlyNut LOL

I've read before that you should set the hook with the fly line using the mending hand as opposed to striking with the rod. This allows you to keep the fly in generally the same location in the case that the fish is "slapping" your fly with say, its tail.  I may be confused with dry fly fishing however, because I know fish at times with attempt to "drown" an insect before attacking a second time.  

Anyways, to get kinda off-topic,  I've had to cut off flies due to deep hooking using chironomids.  I feel this may be when the fish are inhaling their food as opposed to sipping selectively.  Or am I simply missing the lighter initial take and setting the hook too late?  I've read that when releasing a fish that is deep hooked it will survive better if the hook is left and the line cut, so that the hook will either natually slip out or rust out, as opposed to goin in for open mouth surgery with forceps and forcefully removing the fly.  
I leave the fly in the mouth and release the fish in hopes that the fish will grow to become much larger and wiser and more fun to catch another day.  Comments?

Said that very nicely! I rarely ever deep hook a fish with a Chironomid, but if it does happen and depending on the access of removal, I would cut the fly off as well. With the sipping and inhaling of the flies it can be a variety of things for a possible deep hooking. Ie. hookset/how hard the fish actually takes the imitation/how it it played well fighting etc. The only fish I have seemed to have a problem while fly-fishing with and swallowing the hook are Blackwater Rainbows, for those of you who have not caught one before they are very aggresive and wont fool around when producing a take.