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[wizard]

all I know is every time I hear a politician say "we need to reduce redtape for industry" I'm going to think of this. 

[shuswapsteve]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/eemp/incidents/2014/pdf/CRD-Order-to-Restrict-Access-Mt-Polley-TASK152048_20140809.pdf

--But if I went up there to help out I would be breaking the law. (see link above)
--I had actually planned a year ago to be there this week fishing in Quesnel lake.
--For obvious reasons we have had to change our plans.

--I was not aware that environmental emergency plans did not include contingecies for holidays.  I guess incidents only happen during the week 9-5.. thus no plans need to be in place when this is not the case.

What? You aren't going up there to help because you would be breaking the law? Yeah that's right......that's what's holding you back.  Nothing to do with your lack of experience regarding water sampling. It's that damn law.

Instead of guessing about timelines why don't you go to the source?
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/eemp/incidents/2014/pdf/QA-MtPolleyMineTailings_20140810.pdf

[Novabonker]

Considering when the event happened during the early morning on a long weekend I don't think the turnaround time to get results was that unreasonable. Ever tried sending samples to a lab for water testing? I have. I'm sure that ministry staff did their best to get samples taken and sent to the lab as soon as possible. I'm finding no shortage of experts on water sampling and environmental assessment these days.

Utter codswallop. Darn near every company has on call staff for emergent purposes and more that can be called in. Or wasn't this case emergent enough for you?       Did I mention codswallop?What parallel world do you inhabit?

BTW Skaha - Welcome to the Steve's communications skills if you don't agree with him.

[skaha]

Project
Report To
Colleen Hughes, MOUNT POLLEY MINING CORP. ~LIKELY
ALS File No.
L1499194
Date Received
08-Aug-14 09:00
Date
09-Aug-14
DETECTION LIMITS
Sample ID
POL-1
POL-2
Date Sampled
07-AUG-14
07-AUG-14
Time Sampled
11:10
01:50
ALS Sample ID
L1499194-1
L1499194-2


--It appears from their own report that samples taken on the 7th.... results given early morning of 8th then posted on the 9th.

--It would appear that sample turnaroundtime is less than the time it takes to post the results of the samples.

--There does not seem to be an issue with doing the job on the ground or doing the lab work... my point was that it takes longer to SPIN the results than to GET the results. I have every confidence in the professional  ability's of ministry and company "field staff".

[skaha]

-- I have been involved in a number of emergency situations (not caused by me)
-- The last thing response staff need is someone unannounced (including politicians) showing up and getting in the way.

[shuswapsteve]

Utter codswallop. Darn near every company has on call staff for emergent purposes and more that can be called in. Or wasn't this case emergent enough for you?       Did I mention codswallop?What parallel world do you inhabit?

BTW Skaha - Welcome to the Steve's communications skills if you don't agree with him.

Well nobody is as misinformed as you so thanks for chiming in. Why don't you read the link I provided to get up to speed on the issue?  As for communication skills you should read what you just posted.

[shuswapsteve]

Project
Report To
Colleen Hughes, MOUNT POLLEY MINING CORP. ~LIKELY
ALS File No.
L1499194
Date Received
08-Aug-14 09:00
Date
09-Aug-14
DETECTION LIMITS
Sample ID
POL-1
POL-2
Date Sampled
07-AUG-14
07-AUG-14
Time Sampled
11:10
01:50
ALS Sample ID
L1499194-1
L1499194-2


--It appears from their own report that samples taken on the 7th.... results given early morning of 8th then posted on the 9th.

--It would appear that sample turnaroundtime is less than the time it takes to post the results of the samples.

--There does not seem to be an issue with doing the job on the ground or doing the lab work... my point was that it takes longer to SPIN the results than to GET the results. I have every confidence in the professional  ability's of ministry and company "field staff".

Ok, then what makes you believe that the results were spun? Is there something in the results that suggests that the water is still unsafe to use and/or poses a significant risk to aquatic life (including the consumption of fish from areas downstream of Quesnel Lake)? Facts not fiction please.

[skaha]

--I am in no way questioning the lab results I was merely providing some factual documentation to indicate that exceptional service is much less than 3 days.

" You don't know what you are talking about. Three days to get results of water samples which includes taking the sample, shipping, testing, review of the results for QA/QC and reporting is actually exceptional. "

--The "SPIN" is that everything is now fine. The media battle...showing the  slurry running down the creek vs the Mine manager who will be shown fishing the shores and holding up a glass of Gin clear water before taking a sip.

[Rodney]

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=162464&ID=all

Quesnel and Cariboo Rivers reopen for salmon fishing today based on the water quality testing results provided by MoE.

[Novabonker]

Well nobody is as misinformed as you so thanks for chiming in. Why don't you read the link I provided to get up to speed on the issue?  As for communication skills you should read what you just posted.

Point proven. And 3 days is far from exceptional.

[DionJL]

Skaha, you are reading the chain of custody date stamps wrong. The water was sampled Aug 7th, it was received at ALS on Aug 8th, and the data (results) were available shortly thereafter. I have sent water samples to ALS before (two weeks ago in fact) and work in a lab myself. You must understand that completing the tests as per the standard test method (whether it be ASTM, AWWA, EPA, etc) would require a minimum amount of time (likely over 24hrs). It doesn't matter how many people rush into the lab to do the work, it still takes time.

[DionJL]

They are still saying that it is unsafe to test the mud, no way to get a sample. These people are REALLY stupid or hoping for a big rain storm to wash the creek bare. A five gallon bucket under a helicopter on a long line seems like it would work for me. After all that creek is a 150 metres wide now. I have been landed in helicopters in a hell of a lot smaller area.

You can't sample soil or sediment like that; it wouldn't be representative. The material would segregate as it was washed out of the pond. Typical sampling practice from a stock pile is you collect sample from three points: bottom, middle and top as you rotate around the pile. We were fortunate that no one was killed in this accident, and there is no need to send someone into an unstable area, risking their life to collect a sediment sample.

--As you indicated... IF they wanted a sample... they could get one... I don't see why they would need a sample... obviously the stuff was so toxic that it had to be contained in ponds... if it was safe why not just drain it direct in the first place.. this is a no brainer.
--As to MOE spokes person almost in tears... it takes days to get sample results... BS... this is a priority use Christy's jet to transport the samples to multiple labs and get it done.  What takes days is deciding how to spin doctor the results.

Ever heard of people dying from too much water? Just because it was contained doesn’t mean it was lethal. It’s the concentration that is important, and you do need to sample to know
what you're dealing with.

You have absolutely no idea how to do the lab testing required so how would you know how long it would take to get the results?! Stop spouting BS when you have no clue what you are talking about.

--Maybe some registered experts need to go back to school for a refresher course.

Maybe you should do some background research before you start telling people who make decisions based on fact to “go back to school”.

Utter codswallop. Darn near every company has on call staff for emergent purposes and more that can be called in. Or wasn't this case emergent enough for you?       Did I mention codswallop?What parallel world do you inhabit?

Again, it doesn’t matter how many people you throw at the problem, if the Standard Test method says the sample must be treated in some process for 24 hours then it must be treated for 24 hours. Otherwise, you’re jeopardizing accuracy for urgency and in my opinion bad data is useless data no matter how quick you get it.

[shuswapsteve]

Thanks for your informed input, Dion.


What were saying again, Novabonker?

[Novabonker]

Thanks for your informed input, Dion.


What were saying again, Novabonker?

That the tests take something around 24 hours and the results 3 days?

[shuswapsteve]

That the tests take something around 24 hours and the results 3 days?

Yeah that's what you were saying. Thanks.