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[TNAngler]

I'm just trying to help.  If you don't like the method I fish with because the leader is too long, your objection is noted.  If I am able to help one person actually catch sockeye (and a good share of chinook too) without having to rely on snagging the way I see too many people fishing for them, I will consider it a win.  My dad has always been more secretive and shared our methods with friends which I can understand to some extent.  However, if everybody started fishing with our method and caught sockeye because they hit and flossing/snagging wasn't needed anymore, the Fraser would be a better place to fish.  Although I think there are some people that still would set the hook multiple times per cast.  If done right, you don't even have to set the hook fishing like this because they hit it hard enough they are hooked already.  With the barbless hooks though and out of instinct we do set the hook though.

Also, you do have to know enough what you are doing.  My wife was fishing with the same set up but the whole setting the hook and keep the line tight she doesn't have enough practice at and she didn't actually catch anything this year (she caught like a half dozen sockeye last year before the water temp rose and things went to pot).  She had on probably 5 sockeye and one chinook but none of them for very long.  This isn't a miracle lure.  It is still fishing, not catching, although there were days back in the 90s where it seemed like catching.

[typhoon]

You are flossing them, just not very well.
Having the cookie I'm front of the hook means that it to go through the fishes mouth before the hook. This results in lots of flossed opportunities simply bouncing off the maxillary or you give the fish enough time to move and spit the line.

[tworivers]

Please typhoon, for the sake of his followers, don't dispute or discourage the teachings of the gifted one.

[clarki]

I'll be the first to admit that I can't say for certain that I know what is happening in the murky depths of the Fraser.  And I have to hand it to you TNAngler, I admire your attention to detail. Nor do I have an issue, ethical or otherwise, with flossing/snagging. I have proudly flossed in the past, and would do so again, however, in recent years my desire for a quality angling experience has overshadowed my desire to feast on sockeye.

Having said all that, it doesn't add up. Say you have a hook travelling downstream at x miles per hour, and a sockeye travelling upstream at y miles per hour. In the murky Fraser, I don't see how a fish has any time to react to a piece of wool that is coming at it at x+y miles per hour.  Maybe the fish are intentionally snapping at your rig, but given the visibility and speed of approach, I just don't see it... 

That being said, I don't have an issue with bottom bouncing and flossing/snagging/harvesting sockeye. And like I said, I'll be the first to admit that I can't say for certain that I know what is happening in the murky depths of the Fraser.  But from this armchair, I can't see it happening.

     

[Noahs Arc]

There's no doubt in my mind that those fish are being flossed.
I don't understand how you could think otherwise, you're fishing 8-10' leaders next to guys fishing long leaders but you have a small spin n glo on while the guy below you has a corkie. You're both bouncing the same water.
I think typhoon is on track saying that the spIn n glo is probably causing the hook to bounce around the outer maxillary before settling.
I floss sockeye. Every sockeye season I struggle with myself not to go out. My old man taught me to fish and we've fished side by side for almost 30 years. The days of navigating winter "goat" trails to the river for steelhead are done for him, now all he wants to do is get his sockeye, and maybe some fishing in the boat for coho in the Vedder. A lot of guys here slam it and say harvest fishery blah blah, ya it is. And I enjoy going out there with my old man. Id pay double what I do for the chance to go fishing with him before buying from the commies.

[speycaster]

Thanks to TNAngler I now know that with my spey rod, 15 feet of T-17 and the 24 inch leader with the lime green wool on the hook I am not flossing and they are all biters. I just needed some one to verify my results.

[TNAngler]

You guys are unbelievable.

--You are flossing them, just not very well. --

Give me a decent day where the fish aren't spooked and I would out fish any person out there with 20 feet of leader and whatever they want on their hook.

--Having said all that, it doesn't add up. Say you have a hook travelling downstream at x miles per hour, and a sockeye travelling upstream at y miles per hour. In the murky Fraser, I don't see how a fish has any time to react to a piece of wool that is coming at it at x+y miles per hour.  Maybe the fish are intentionally snapping at your rig, but given the visibility and speed of approach, I just don't see it...  --

They don't have much time to react but they have some.  We can see what, two feet?  What can the fish see?  More than two feet for sure.  Four feet?  Five?  Ten?  How much time do they need to react?  Someone throws a ball at your face, how quickly can you move out of the way or try and catch it?  I bet even two feet away you would move slightly, and their reaction time is much quicker than ours full body wise.

--I don't understand how you could think otherwise, you're fishing 8-10' leaders next to guys fishing long leaders but you have a small spin n glo on while the guy below you has a corkie. You're both bouncing the same water.--

Oh, ok, so someone throwing a spoon next to a guy throwing the exact same spoon both get the same number of hits?  Or one guy fishing for pinks with a pink spinner while another fishes with silver.  They are fishing the same water with the same lures.  If what you said was true, you would expect them to catch the same number of fish that we do.  Or if the spin n glo helps hook them better somehow, at least hook the same number of fish.  Granted, some of those guys are setting the hook a whole lot, maybe they are just missing that many fish in which case my numbers are off.

--with the lime green wool on the hook I am not flossing and they are all biters.--

I'm not saying at all that if you fish with the right equipment that you still aren't flossing/snagging.  People can floss/snag while fly fishing or pretty much any other method out there.  I would say if you are catching almost all of your fish in the inside of the mouth that you should be able to sleep fine at night.

--Having the cookie I'm front of the hook means that it to go through the fishes mouth before the hook. This results in lots of flossed opportunities simply bouncing off the maxillary or you give the fish enough time to move and spit the line. --

Which would then result in fewer fish caught.  Even more still because they would feel the spin n glo go through their mouth and then they will turn to escape it so you would need them to turn toward the hook, not away from it.  And often, if they turn away, they slap at whatever offended them, so you would then expect some caught in the mouth and some caught probably near the tail or behind the dorsal fin or at least feel something as the lure gets slapped and then have nothing.

My method is out there.  People are free to try it and hopefully they have better results than they used to have.  Done right, I feel it can increase people's sockeye and chinook catch significantly.  If you don't like it, I have to wonder why.  A lot of people on here complain about all the people flossing.  If it is even remotely possible that there is a method to actually entice them to bite, why would you not be for at least trying it or if you are too high and mighty, at least allowing others to improve the way they fish?  No explanation given explains the extremely high percentage caught inside the mouth, nor the extreme difference in fish caught (weather front moving through or fish spooked from nets, our catch drops to almost nothing while normal flossers don't change, normal fishing day, a lot more fish on this set up).  You can hand wave all you want but just because people don't fish the way you like doesn't mean what they are doing is wrong.

[clarki]

Just because I respectfully doubt your claim that the fish are striking at your rig, doesn't make me "unbelieveable."

Obviously you are in no mood for a constructive, respectful exchange.

Cheers.
     

[TNAngler]

Just because I respectfully doubt your claim that the fish are striking at your rig, doesn't make me "unbelieveable."

Obviously you are in no mood for a constructive, respectful exchange.

Cheers.
   

Sorry, I shouldn't have put you in there.  Your post was mostly respectful and just questioning.  Some of the others are on their tirade where unless you fish their way you are obviously doing something wrong.  Constructive, respectful exchanges I am definitely up for.  You can't tell me that most of the other responses were anything close to respectful.  I'm presenting an alternative that in my mind works and is at least better than a number of the people out there fishing for sockeye.

Just the fact that so many are hooked in the mouth I would think people would be happy with this as an alternative so that there are fewer people out there setting the hook on anything and hooking multiple fish in the belly or back where the fish is horribly exhausted before they can get it in enough to free it.  Doubt I understand, hate and ridicule I have little respect for.  I am sorry for including you in that post and should have responded to yours separately.

[clarki]

All is good.

[TheLostSockeye]

Sorry, I shouldn't have put you in there.  Your post was mostly respectful and just questioning.  Some of the others are on their tirade where unless you fish their way you are obviously doing something wrong.  Constructive, respectful exchanges I am definitely up for.  You can't tell me that most of the other responses were anything close to respectful.  I'm presenting an alternative that in my mind works and is at least better than a number of the people out there fishing for sockeye.

Just the fact that so many are hooked in the mouth I would think people would be happy with this as an alternative so that there are fewer people out there setting the hook on anything and hooking multiple fish in the belly or back where the fish is horribly exhausted before they can get it in enough to free it.  Doubt I understand, hate and ridicule I have little respect for.  I am sorry for including you in that post and should have responded to yours separately.

well lets see a picture of your magic rig then. I personally don't believe your claims. I honestly think you waste your time making this rig when you are just flossing like everyone else. There are people who floss that will out catch everyone around them 10 - 1. Its not very hard. A true fisherman that is flossing on the Fraser will be able to read the water and tell exactly where the sockeye travel lane is. In this travel lane one could get a sockeye in the mouth almost every drift. There would be no accidental snagging in the belly or tail. This only occurs with fisherman who are constantly "setting the hook" every cast.

[TNAngler]

well lets see a picture of your magic rig then. I personally don't believe your claims. I honestly think you waste your time making this rig when you are just flossing like everyone else. There are people who floss that will out catch everyone around them 10 - 1. Its not very hard. A true fisherman that is flossing on the Fraser will be able to read the water and tell exactly where the sockeye travel lane is. In this travel lane one could get a sockeye in the mouth almost every drift. There would be no accidental snagging in the belly or tail. This only occurs with fisherman who are constantly "setting the hook" every cast.

I already told you I can't get a picture although with my description you can reproduce it almost exactly so I don't understand why you would need a picture.

You are fooling yourself if you think on a normal year that anybody can get a sockeye in the mouth on almost every drift.  This year, in another couple weeks, yes.  Although, with this many fish in the water, sometimes it is hard not to snag them as you can hit them right when you hit the water.  Although that doesn't take a lot of skill as the travel lane when there are that many fish is most of the river.  And I'm not sure where these true fisherman are fishing because in all of the years I have fished up there and all the different locations I have fished, there isn't anybody that has outfished us consistently and on the days that we are outfished, they aren't hooking the majority anywhere near the mouth.

How are these "true fisherman" flossing their fish and yet still getting the hook INSIDE the mouth on a consistent basis on every cast?  If you are truly flossing, the hook is likely to end up on the outer side of the mouth on the away from shore side, or the shore side inside of the mouth.  If you are so knowledgeable how this happens, then why don't you share your secret so that more fisherman can hook these sockeye on every cast with the hook in the mouth every time, just based on reading the water.

[TheLostSockeye]

by not being able to get a picture just shows us that you are full of it. Everybody has a cell phone and can post a picture. Even if you don't have a cell phone i bet someone in your household does.

Its not really a secret its relatively easy to see where sockeye swim up along the river and hold. Ill go up to a guy who hasn't caught a sockeye in his life and tell him to cast right "there" And boom he will hookup almost every cast. Flossing in the mouth not snagging in the tail. If you legitimately floss you will hook 99% of the fish in the mouth. You don't even have to set the hook most of the time because the fish hooks itself when its opening and closing its mouth.

[TNAngler]

by not being able to get a picture just shows us that you are full of it. Everybody has a cell phone and can post a picture. Even if you don't have a cell phone i bet someone in your household does.

Its not really a secret its relatively easy to see where sockeye swim up along the river and hold. Ill go up to a guy who hasn't caught a sockeye in his life and tell him to cast right "there" And boom he will hookup almost every cast. Flossing in the mouth not snagging in the tail. If you legitimately floss you will hook 99% of the fish in the mouth. You don't even have to set the hook most of the time because the fish hooks itself when its opening and closing its mouth.

What are you smoking?  We already have numbers stating that something like while flossing, only 37% of the fish were hooked inside the mouth.  Maybe if you are fishing up where they are spawning and can easily see the fish.  Wherever I have fished there is no magic "cast right there and you will catch one."  There are many factors in where the fish are, especially when there are not a lot of fish in the river.  If someone cast close to them downstream a little bit, they will likely move out slightly, or maybe in slightly.  There are certainly place where fish tend to hold but there is no guarantee that if you hit that spot every single cast that you are going to get a fish.

Yes, I have a cell phone.  My dad, who is still in Washington, does not.  Well, he has one but does not have one that will take pictures and if he did have one that took pictures, he wouldn't know how to use it anyways.  And to ask one of my other family members to go out of their way to get you a picture when I described it in quite exact details just seems kinda rude to them and pointless.  If I remember, next year when I fly up there I will try and take a picture of it.

[TNAngler]

Or have you not figured out from my name that TNAngler means I am in Tennessee?  Or maybe that is just one of my fish tales like some of yours.

Since there is this magic catch a fish every cast place, you should tell everyone where it is and what to do so that people can stop wasting time and effort so they can get their two fish and go home.  We can just form a nice straight line.  A person will move up, make two casts, and then it will be the next persons turn.  I'm sure we can get through a couple hundred people in a day.