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[Every Day]

Thanks everyday, you helped me land my first steelhead...ever. I had a pretty big grin on my face.

Awesome to hear! Hopefully one of many to come.


As for the dacron breaking below the knots - I'd be very interested to know how many other people are having these issues out there? I, for whatever reason, haven't had the dacron break on me except for the very odd occasion (and generally I've attributed that to a specific spoon or two). I'm wondering if it has to do with how tightly you pull on the line and cinch down the knot before you add it to the spoon? I use pliers to cinch my knots down generally, grabbing the hook gap tightly with my finger and then holding the tag ends with the pliers to get a good pull to tighten the knots down. After that I add it to the spoon.

I'm glad though that you've found a solution (and an easy one) to the problem. That is exactly what is great about these forums. Always able to further improve and develop new methods! I'll definitely keep the aquaseal dab in mind if I ever have the problem.

One question Snagly - are you adding the dab onto the dacron once it's looped on the spoon or before? If adding it after, it's quite possible that the aquaseal stops the dacron from sliding back and forth on the spoon completely - effectively holding the dacron in place on the metal on either side of the spoon and not allowing movement to cause abrasion?

Cheers,
Dan

[sugartooth]

Of all the  steelhead I've hooked this season using this method only two were lost because of the dracon line breaking. I do inspect it often and change it out when it shows some wear.
When tying the double granny knot I tend to end up with a longer than desired length so when i attach it to the spoon I'll put the knot though the hole and over the hook twice and pull it tight. It stays in place and doesn't slide against the spoon.

[RalphH]

What's the point of applying Aquaseal or crazy glue if the source of the break isn't the knot ?

prior to the glue the source of break was the knot - the knots actually slipped. It's very weak at about 20 to 25% of the breaking strength of the line. This works in application because the strength of the doubled line is about 60lbs yielding a pre-failure strength of 12 to 15lbs minimum which is more than enough and maybe more than the leader most of the time.. I've been applying super glues to knots on braid (biminis and albrights where the tag can slip) for a number years.

[Snagly]

Every Day Dan: I'd rather not glue the Dacron knots once they're in the spoon for fear of gumming up the hole in the spoon making it a lot harder to swap hardware down the road. Instead, I'm building the loops separately (e.g. cutting 7" of Dacron, double knotting it to form a loop, trimming and then rolling the knot in a dab of Aquaseal--or Superglue--before allowing it to dry overnight. Then threading on a hook and storing it a small Ziploc, or putting it onto a spoon body). But there IS glue on the two Dacron 'legs' just below the knot. This could be reducing abrasion.

I've not been tightening the knots with pliers. Instead, I'm opening up the loop from within, hooking both index fingers through and pulling in opposite directions. In those cases where the two granny knots weren't quite touching one another, this procedure ensures that they end up merged into one bigger lump.

I have to caution that I've not fished the above setup, I'm only testing it with handscales and imported beer. But I'm now getting the Dacron loops to break at 20lbs which is plenty more than I'd ever need.

Sugartooth: I was thinking along the same lines as you, namely "double looping" the Dacron loop to the spoon to spread the stress a little further.

Ralph H: do you have issues with the Superglue dissolving or wearing out? I no longer glue Biminis with ordinary Superglue. If in the salt or an extreme fishing situation, I stumped up for a small bottle of Loctite 406 (thanks to the suggestion of the late Max Garth). That is a special formulation Superglue that marries well to gelspun polyethylene (a.k.a., braid). I suspect, but don't know, that the 'ordinary' Krazy Glue from the corner store will work fine with Dacron.

[Fish Assassin]

Curious what lb. test Dacron you guys are using ?

[Snagly]

30lb Cabela's, fluoro yellow (though I doubt the color makes a difference) with a waxy coating. Breaks at 32-33lbs if tied with 100% knots (e.g. doubled line uniknots)

[RalphH]

Ralph H: do you have issues with the Superglue dissolving or wearing out?

No but all the knots I use are proven near 100% strength so using glue is overkill. Primarily I use it to fix the tag locks on albrights and biminis as these can slip. CA glues or super glue has been used for fixing knots and wound thread for decades as has other glue like pliobond , epoxy and aquaseal with great results so I don't see any issues. Served thread splices or loops fixed with superglue don't fail even when the glue cracks and the surface starts to wear or fray.

Even knots with close to 100% strength are subject to strain and wear in use. I've lost good fish because I neglected to retie a knot in terminal tackle when the fishing was hot. Given the inherent weakness of a double overhand knot I'd recommend people consider this and swap the knot out which given how easy this is to do should be quick and simple.

[Knnn]

Rather than dacron, would a split ring and snap swivel work just as well and limit the chance of breakage? 

Also, is the length of the dacron important?

I have a favorite spoon around 3/5 onze I like but they come with 4/0 or 5/0 hooks, which appear incredibly oversized and I want to downsize the hooks to minimize damage to fish.  I presume the length between the spoon and hook helps to compensate for a large sized spoon potentially blocking a clean hook set with a smaller hook?

[Flytech]

Rather than dacron, would a split ring and snap swivel work just as well and limit the chance of breakage?

I believe it would work, but wouldn't be as bind proof as the Dacron.

Also, is the length of the dacron important?

It's important, it has to have enough room to fit the hook through.

[RalphH]

Dave Murphy demonstrated something like this swivels and snap rings on Sportsfishing Bc many years back. 

[Flytech]

Dave Murphy demonstrated something like this swivels and snap rings on Sportsfishing Bc many years back.

Great.

[Snagly]

Anyone use the Dacron loops to attach singles to plugs? I was converting Kwikfishes and Tadpollies the other night and decided to use Dacron loops rather than the split ring-swivel-split ring-Siwash approach I used previously. I particularly enjoy casting (or freespooling) them out when wading, and reeling slowwwly through the hole for Springs.

Wondering what others' experiences have been.

[skaha]

Anyone use the Dacron loops to attach singles to plugs? I was converting Kwikfishes and Tadpollies the other night and decided to use Dacron loops rather than the split ring-swivel-split ring-Siwash approach I used previously. I particularly enjoy casting (or freespooling) them out when wading, and reeling slowwwly through the hole for Springs.

Wondering what others' experiences have been.

--Lots of the older wooden plugs used to come rigged with Dacron loops. ...especially for your purpose...slow retireve.. remember many of these plugs were designed for trolling when using oars.
--I think the hook swings free...due to less weight and adds action on a slow retrieve. On faster retireves or trolling at higher speeds with a motor... may not add much to the action.  I don't think any of these different methods are wrong... they just give a different action to your lure thus you can fine tune it to your application once you know how you want to present the lure.
--I use this on some of my Lyman wood plugs when trolling fresh water for kokanee or sockeye whe we troll at 1-1.2 mph or less.

[Snagly]

A short note to report that I experienced mixed results with two hook models recommended for the 30lb dacron loops. No problem threading the doubled dacron through the eye of the Matzuo 1/0 sickle hooks, but no go with the #1 Matzuo octopus models I also bought from Cabela's. Suggest that fans of the octopus model step it up to 1/0 as well.

[Every Day]

A short note to report that I experienced mixed results with two hook models recommended for the 30lb dacron loops. No problem threading the doubled dacron through the eye of the Matzuo 1/0 sickle hooks, but no go with the #1 Matzuo octopus models I also bought from Cabela's. Suggest that fans of the octopus model step it up to 1/0 as well.

I find to fit it through the size 1 octopus you have to roll the dacron in your fingers and push it through the eye. The size 1 octopus and the size 1/0 sickle are the same size hook wise. You should be able to fit the dacron loop through even the size 4 matzou eyes, which is why I use them (they have a very large size eye for the hook size). See if the finger rolling trick works before upping in size (the 1/0 tend to flex a bit more than the 1's, which I'm not too keen on).