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Author Topic: Directly Affected  (Read 17804 times)

chris gadsden

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Directly Affected
« on: October 05, 2014, 09:41:25 AM »

My first attempt at stardom. ;D ;D
http://youtu.be/n0NDv45gn-E

riptide

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2014, 03:32:21 PM »

Good work Chris , your message was direct and to the point . After watching the video I was left wondering is this battle already lost or just beginning . We are told over and over in life to speak up as a democracy and write our MP's and government etc. It is a bit deflating when you see our MP's , Mayors , Professors and everyday good folk's voices being silenced . They have done everything within their legal power and it still was not enough . I was under the impression the pipeline was going through and if that is true  what is the next step ?
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Fishing is not a matter of life or death ...it's more important than that

salmonrook

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2014, 10:33:11 PM »

Great work Chris,
 The only way people can  affect change is through education
  Thanks for  informing us.
 
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Athezone

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2014, 08:06:32 AM »

Kinder Morgan declined to comment. The NEB. declined to comment. Of course they did.

That gentleman from Korea was right and public opinion should be taken into account a lot more than it has been.

Seems like the politician's and the Big Oil Boys listen to what the people are saying but are Not hearing us. One spill and this fishing paradise we enjoy will be greatly destroyed.

Wonderful video Chris. Your best work yet and I'm happy there are people like you willing to sacrifice your time, energy and money to help our planet. If we all did more, including me this world would be a much better place.

Thanks Chris !!!
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GordJ

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2014, 09:09:16 AM »

Kinder Morgan declined to comment. The NEB. declined to comment. Of course they did.

That gentleman from Korea was right and public opinion should be taken into account a lot more than it has been.

Seems like the politician's and the Big Oil Boys listen to what the people are saying but are Not hearing us. One spill and this fishing paradise we enjoy will be greatly destroyed.

Wonderful video Chris. Your best work yet and I'm happy there are people like you willing to sacrifice your time, energy and money to help our planet. If we all did more, including me this world would be a much better place.

Thanks Chris !!!
So, the Kinder Morgan pipeline is 60+ years old and is worn out. It has delivered up to 300,000 barrels of petroleum products to the Lower Mainland every day for this time and I am wondering how we are going to get this energy to the Lower Mainland when this pipeline is, inevitably, shut down?
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pbish

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2014, 10:06:19 AM »

Gord that's the question the NIMBY's dont want to answer
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Dave

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2014, 10:28:14 AM »

So, the Kinder Morgan pipeline is 60+ years old and is worn out. It has delivered up to 300,000 barrels of petroleum products to the Lower Mainland every day for this time and I am wondering how we are going to get this energy to the Lower Mainland when this pipeline is, inevitably, shut down?
Was wondering that myself ... fine and good to bitch about this pipeline but who will be the first to park their vehicles?
Sorry, but I'm in favor this particular pipeline.
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salmonrook

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2014, 11:29:59 AM »

Another tradegy with this is the Coquihalla river.
Basically forgotten imao.
Once  great fishing for steelhead and trout .
This and of course the building of the hwy basically ruined this river for any fishery.
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bigblockfox

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2014, 01:15:51 PM »

why don't the land owners have a say in this, all 2200 hundred of them. i don't understand how they can lay pipe on land they do not own. how would you feel if your land was ripped up to lay a new pipe down especially if your against the project as a whole. if we were using this fossil fuel for domestic use and not for export my views might change but the video clearly states 100% export. also leave the park your vehicles bs. todays vehicles emit a small fraction of emissions of what they use too and burn much less fuel. also where would the provincial governments tax revenue come in if it weren't for the average joe putting fuel in his car. i would love to see the numbers of how much industry burns fossil fuel compared to the public, i bet we carry most of the tax burden too. all these natural resources are headed to asain markets while they are still worth something to fuel their industry so they can say goodbye to the sun forever because of the pollution. people > big business.
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absolon

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2014, 01:35:43 PM »

So, the Kinder Morgan pipeline is 60+ years old and is worn out. It has delivered up to 300,000 barrels of petroleum products to the Lower Mainland every day for this time and I am wondering how we are going to get this energy to the Lower Mainland when this pipeline is, inevitably, shut down?

Kinder Morgan doesn't seem to think it's worn out or have any plans to shut it down.

This isn't about maintaining BC's supply. Some 70% of the 300,000 barrels of product currently shipped keep on going when they get to the Lower Mainland and the number of tankers leaving Vancouver has tripled to 60 since 2005. The planned 400,000 bpd expansion is not to maintain domestic supply; it is entirely intended for export, will carry bitumen that we can't refine here and could see more than 400 tankers a year. It is quite likely that rather than the partially loaded Aframax tankers now in use, fully loaded Panamax tankers will be used and eventually possible that Suezmax tankers will be put in service.

This isn't about consumers demanding more petroleum products. It's about Alberta oil producers seeking to expand markets and a pipeline with greater capacity than Enbridge running through the city and terminating deep inside a congested harbour. A person may or may not agree with the expansion, but let's look at the real facts and the real risks when making that decision.
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Athezone

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2014, 02:10:17 PM »

Yep, this isn't about providing oil for BC its all about gaining more wealth for those involved. Greed is the word.
Richard Kinder is the owner of Kinder Morgan and is a billionaire a couple times over. Estimated worth = 8.2 billion dollars.

While crude oil can be devastating to environments when spilled, diluted bitumen from the tar sands is even more difficult to clean up. When mined, tar sands bitumen is so heavy and thick that it can only travel through pipelines when combined with chemical diluents, including benzene (a human carcinogen). When spilled in waterways, the heavy bitumen sinks to the bottom, so conventional clean-up techniques have little effect. At the same time, the chemical diluents such as benzene evaporate and cause toxic clouds in the air.

What are the chances of an oil spill?

According to The Mariners Group, there were 3.2 major oil spills per year over the last 37 years worldwide. However, over the last ten years, that number has climbed to 8.6 major oil spills per year, and in the last five years, soared to 14.8 major oil spills each year.

Oil also enters the ocean through the routine maintenance of ships, and from land-based sources such as the refinery and Kinder-Morgan oil port in Burrard Inlet.  Approximately 706 million gallons of waste oil (not oil "spills") enter the ocean every year.

There is also a risk that a tanker could go aground right off our coast. The Inlet where the tankers currently pass through is a very narrow and shallow body of water. The current Aframax tankers that pass through the Burrard Inlet barely clear the ocean floor. Because of the weight and size of the vessels, tankers navigating through the Inlet must wait until daylight high tide before passing through, where they can draw 15 m and clear the ocean floor by 1.5m.

Suexmax tankers, which are 8 metres wider and draw up to 5m deeper than the current tankers, are too big to pass through certain parts of the Inlet. The Second Narrows CN rail bridge is the narrowest and most dangerous point.

Lastly, our coast is located in an earthquake zone. It is not only a tanker going aground, or a leak from the pipeline that could see mass amounts of oil destroying the coast.


It is estimated that the financial damage caused by a potential large-scale oil spill in the Burrard Inlet could cost approximately $40 billion. This number is based on research done from other oil spills and the cost incurred based on the cost per barrel of oil that was spilled.

That $40 billion includes clean-up costs, resident evacuations, tourism loss, losses to the BC fishing industry, health costs and port losses in annual wages and salaries.

But of course, the cost of an oil spill to our natural ecosystems, to places like Stanley Park—which would be destroyed—and to Vancouver’s international reputation as a “Beautiful Green City” is incalculable.


Who would be held liable if an oil spill occurred? Who would pay for all these costs?

Once the oil is on a tanker, the oil companies and pipeline companies can claim they are no longer responsible. As a result, ship owners often register their ships in countries that allow them to set up almost invisible companies. When the ship experiences a big spill, the company just goes bankrupt and disappears.

There are national and international "compensation funds" in place that may be accessed in the event of a major ship-source oil spill. But the maximum amount available from all those funds combined is still  billions of dollars less than what would be required to recover from a serious marine spill.

Therefore, the municipal, provincial and federal governments (and taxpayers) would be left having to pay the majority of the costs associated with an oil spill.

For more on oil spill liability, click here to read a 2013 report published by the Wilderness Committee, Living Oceans Society, Georgia Strait Alliance and West Coast Environmental Law.


Just a little info on what and why oil is being brought here and what the consequences could be. This oil isn't for you or I its for Mr. Morgan, the ( already a billionaire ), the politicians with their dirty hands in his pocket and for Asian locations.
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Athezone

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2014, 02:15:04 PM »

Oh if anyone wants more info just Google wildnerness committee oil spill. Thats where I obtained the previous info.

Good Fishing All  8)
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GordJ

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2014, 05:03:27 PM »

So, much like a thread on fish farms, this will become a cut and paste war between the pro industry and anti everything camps.
More proof that you can't argue "articles of faith".
You will not convince me to change my opinion anymore than I will convince you. I just wanted to point out that there are people who enjoy the outdoors and want it to remain clean and unpolluted just like you but who disagree with the anti-everything position.
GordJ, in favour of flossing, pipelines and critical thinking.
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absolon

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2014, 05:52:58 PM »

You will not convince me to change my opinion...........


GordJ, in favour of............critical thinking.
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Athezone

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Re: Directly Affected
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2014, 05:56:31 PM »

So, much like a thread on fish farms, this will become a cut and paste war between the pro industry and anti everything camps.
More proof that you can't argue "articles of faith".
You will not convince me to change my opinion anymore than I will convince you. I just wanted to point out that there are people who enjoy the outdoors and want it to remain clean and unpolluted just like you but who disagree with the anti-everything position.
GordJ, in favour of flossing, pipelines and critical thinking.

Yeah, isn't it though. I never participated in the fish farm talk very much but it was as you say Gord. And I'm not so so much against the pipeline as I am over the shipping the oil over our precious waters that worries me. One spill and man, who knows. Its crazy thinking that if I took my kids to the beach they may see birds covered in oil or other unsightly scenes. And the loss. Incalculable I think is a good word. Its good that Chris brings this to the forefront and if it does turn out to be like the fish farm talks, well. It is what it is.

Good Fishing All !!!!
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