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[skaha]

--I use betties with a T-turn swivel for trolling and drop shotting in lakes.
--Tackle stores can make their own choices but if they so choose they could give advice on non snagging use...especially in areas where snagging is not condoned.

--If a shop were to take everything off the shelf that offended someone they wouldn't have anything to sell.
--PETA and others don't like the selling of "natural' materials or even fish torture.
--Some don't want treble hooks because in some areas you cannot fish with them.
--Other want all non fly gear removed.
--There is no end to it.

--Promoting what some deem to be ethical fishing... I'm all for it... banning choice.... no way

[DionJL]

Where there is a will, there is a way (to floss). This of course is beyond the fact that not everyone thinks flossing should be banned.

[DanL]

This is merely food for thought, but we should push the shops to all stop selling Betties....

I know they could still buy them online, but it would reduce the numbers for sure.

I'm not sure I concur. Like you say, there are big box stores and online sources so the practice would not be diminished much if at all. What we need is better education. There is no more need to ban betties any more than banning 50lb braid or leaders sold in greater than 24" increments. All tools have a time and place and I dont believe they are the problem, but rather the symptom.

If we could only convince the major shops to lead the pack and stop pushing bad practices.

I totally agree with you on that, this is part of the problem right here. Every sockeye season all the stores have big signs and ads essentially saying "SOCKEYE HAVE ARRIVED!! GET YOUR SNAGGING GEAR HERE!!". But do the specialty stores take the opportunity to educate anglers who but the stuff? ie find out why a customer is buying a particular piece of gear and taking the time to explain the proper time and use of it.  If someone was to buy a betty and 5/0 hooks today, out of sockeye season, the store should determine how/where they plan on using it and try to redirect them to more appropriate methods if possible.

People go to the LFS for advice and service, shouldn't they have an ethical imperative to promote practices that are healthy for the sport?

[Fish Assassin]

Ill thought out suggestion IMO. Fishermen will just resort to using pencil lead, and other forms of weight. Might as well ban yarn, corkies, spin n'glos and other terminal gear

[Flytech]

Ill thought out suggestion IMO. Fishermen will just resort to using pencil lead, and other forms of weight. Might as well ban yarn, corkies, spin n'glos and other terminal gear

Pencil tends to get caught up more in bottom debree. The rounded Betty makes for perfect bounce and roll.


Again, mere suggestion, DFO clearly isn't going to set leader length.

[Flytech]

I totally agree with you on that, this is part of the problem right here. Every sockeye season all the stores have big signs and ads essentially saying "SOCKEYE HAVE ARRIVED!! GET YOUR SNAGGING GEAR HERE!!". But do the specialty stores take the opportunity to educate anglers who but the stuff? ie find out why a customer is buying a particular piece of gear and taking the time to explain the proper time and use of it.  If someone was to buy a betty and 5/0 hooks today, out of sockeye season, the store should determine how/where they plan on using it and try to redirect them to more appropriate methods if possible.

I do not understand why they do not put in the effort, because educating an angler may get them more long term business. If I go to any type of shop and expirence great knowledgable staff who are willing to help me understand my purchase, I am more inclined to go back to that store next time I need something.


I use one shop specifically because I like certain staff members. I go out of my way to go to that shop, when they have another more convienent location close to the river. But the shop overall needs to work on their selling/educating practices just like all of the local lower mainland establishments.

[Flytech]

--I use betties with a T-turn swivel for trolling and drop shotting in lakes.
--Tackle stores can make their own choices but if they so choose they could give advice on non snagging use...especially in areas where snagging is not condoned.

--If a shop were to take everything off the shelf that offended someone they wouldn't have anything to sell.
--PETA and others don't like the selling of "natural' materials or even fish torture.
--Some don't want treble hooks because in some areas you cannot fish with them.
--Other want all non fly gear removed.
--There is no end to it.

--Promoting what some deem to be ethical fishing... I'm all for it... banning choice.... no way

Fair enough, I agree, my thoughts are more on the education from staff than the banning of gear now this discussion as opened.


This is why I started the thread. Good discussion, instead of people just complaining about the flossing/snagging practice. Maybe we come up with some constructive ideas to help limit it.

[Flytech]

Local shops may listen to our suggestions, but we would have a much harder time convincing large corporations such as Walmart and Canadian tire.

I'm thinking it would be a hard task even convincing the local shops. As for the walmarts, etc, they don't even provide staff they could educate.


It's monkey see monkey do out there, and if we could establish the education/promotion of better practices then we might slowly see a change. But you need to start some where, and discussion is better than non-discussion.

[Flytech]

The fall salmon fishing has been a gong show in all the time I have been fishing which is over 50 years. In that whole time newbies have been showing up with the wrong tactics and no idea of protocol on those streams. Banning bettys or anything else won't make that go away.

Agreed that it's been a gong show, and will continue being that way for a long time. But that doesn't mean we should just stick our heads in the sand, right?


The newbies have to have learned it from somewhere, is it the shops? Is it their buddies? Is it just observation on the river? If you don't know ANYTHING about fishing you wouldn't know how to setup a snagging rig.

[DanL]

I do not understand why they do not put in the effort, because educating an angler may get them more long term business.

This is a really good point. betties, wool, hooks etc provide short term revenue but how much long term profit can a store expect from that? Barely $20 worth of terminal gear is probably enough to last me a seasons fishing on the Vedder.

You would think if they could convert them to someone who wants to enjoy the all round fishing experience, better profits can be made when they start buying fly gear, high end reels, custom rods, boating accessories, nice waders/jackets, and on and on and on.

I have no insight into the finances of running a fishing store but it seems there is not much they could add to the selling of betties that cant be done (cheaper) by walmart. Obviously their advantage is in their great knowledge and specialty selections.

I'm thinking it would be a hard task even convincing the local shops.

I know Sea-Run explicitly tries to discourage BB'ing on non-Fraser systems in their blog and reports. It's not much, but its something.  I dont know what their in-store interactions on that topic are like, but stores which do not care how the stuff they sell is being used should be made known and not be given any of our business.

[Shmoke Shaman]

Can't tell a business to stop selling a product because people are miss using it ........ this will never happen......

[Flytech]

Can't tell a business to stop selling a product because people are miss using it ........ this will never happen......

You can't tell anyone to do anything, but you can discuss options and ideas.

[burnaby]

Max 12" leader, size 2 hook.

OP> Are you using leader longer than 12", hook bigger than size 2; if so consider yourself a snagger. 

[clarkii]

That assumption requres both right?

Otherwise dry fly/lake chironie fishing would be considered snagging at times 

Personally I read somewhere cali has some interesting salmon laws, I should look into those.

[Fish Assassin]

Pencil tends to get caught up more in bottom debree. The rounded Betty makes for perfect bounce and roll.


Again, mere suggestion, DFO clearly isn't going to set leader length.

Agree but if betties are ban, they will use pencil lead or slinkies