Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Flytech]

Ken wrote "Do to the recent comments showing complete lack of self education   and knowledge about the behaviour of salmon as they migrate upstream it is now agonisingly obvious where all the bad attitudes and judgement are coming from EPIC levels of passionate conflict over things they KNOW NOTHING ABOUT apparently So I wonder if these people are going to be SO ARROGANT that they wont even take a moment to read a little about the biology of a salmon on its upstream run??  READ and learn please and thank you  At this link
http://www.fws.gov/species/species_accounts/bio_salm.html"

I replied and wanted it posted here before he deletes it.

 "There is no way I am thinking I'm a guru on salmon knowledge, but I do take the time to read both sides of the topic at hand and I decipher my opinion based on experience and what I learned. Ken, lets think a bit here... You're basing this rude reply which is aimed at our intelligence. You're finding this information via the internet. You're quoting a paper that was citing information from the 90's, and other non-scientific sources. I would like to discuss this with you without insulting you any further, and I wish you do the same. Read this recent study from Michigan State University in 2012: http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/amazing_revelation_some_pacific_salmon_do_feed_during_spawning_runLets also think ourselves a bit, I'm not sure if you've done much salmon fishing outside the Vedder system or not. I'm also not sure what different catching methods you've tried. But explain to me why coho salmon will take a roe offering ever so lightly that it barely moves the float? It's not an aggressive attach but more of a feeding type action. Explain to me why using bait (such as roe) is a much more effective way of catching fish than lure fishing?Why are you so focused on proving us wrong, instead of listening, discussing, and working it out like adults?So even if you're study is correct, and Salmon don't actually feed, but they attack offerings in an aggressive manor. What's the point there then? That flossing/snagging is ok because they don't feed? You get so much negative feedback, because people don't know how to express their feelings correctly. They would rather just bash you than talk with you. Again, I really applaud your enthusiasm for fishing! It's awesome you want to make these videos and I wish you success. But I do wish you listen to the message behind a lot of the feedback, that the public would like you to improve your method of fishing, and catch and release practices."

[rustybee]

Wow. I'm truly speechless. Someone needs to notify DFO on those dogs. 

[RalphH]

Flytech as far the mostly non-issue do Pacific Salmon feed once they commence their spawning run. For the most part they do not in the sense they don't eat, swallow and digest food items for sustenance as they did before. I've cleaned hundreds of salmon over many years and only once or twice found any stomach contents - only in jack coho salmon all of it undigested. Apparently, so I have read (and sorry if my obtaining knowledge from reading insults anyone's intelligence ) salmon on returning to fresh water no longer produce the stomach liquids necessary to digest food and for the most part regurgitate whatever they swallow. There's bound to be exceptions among tens of millions of salmon returning to rivers every year on both sides of the Pacific and in the Great Lakes.

Fortunately many do exhibit both a conditioned feeding response -thought by many anglers to be a reemergence of behaviours they required during their juvenile fresh water period - often called the imprint theory IIRC - which explains why coho take small wet flies - they remember eating caddis and sticklebacks etc. Likewise some anglers think salmon eat other salmon eggs consistent with a "Social Biology" response - by eating the eggs of other fish they remove potential competition for their own offspring, though I doubt this notion. Both would be  genetically imprinted behaviours and not directed feeding behaviours

finally they may  strike out of an aggressive impulse - such as when they strike a spoon or spinner.

BTW I find it hard to believe he banned you from commenting on his Facebook page just for that. The way he looks kind of makes me think of Mussolini! 

[Rodney]

BTW I find it hard to believe he banned you from commenting on his Facebook page just for that. The way he looks kind of makes me think of Mussolini! 

And here I thought there's no freedom of speech at Fishing with Rod!

[Flytech]

Flytech as far the mostly non-issue do Pacific Salmon feed once they commence their spawning run. For the most part they do not in the sense they don't eat, swallow and digest food items for sustenance as they did before. I've cleaned hundreds of salmon over many years and only once or twice found any stomach contents - only in jack coho salmon all of it undigested. Apparently, so I have read (and sorry if my obtaining knowledge from reading insults anyone's intelligence intelligence) salmon on returning to fresh water no longer produce the stomach liquids necessary to digest food and for the most part regurgitate whatever they swallow. There's bound to be exceptions among tens of millions of salmon returning to rivers every year on both sides of the Pacific and in the Great Lakes.

Fortunately many do exhibit both a conditioned feeding response -thought by many anglers to be a reemergence of behaviours they required during their juvenile fresh water period - often called the imprint theory IIRC - which explains why coho take small wet flies - they remember eating caddis and sticklebacks etc. Likewise some anglers think salmon eat other salmon eggs consistent with a "Social Biology" response - by eating the eggs of other fish they remove potential competition for their own offspring, though I doubt this notion. Both would be  genetically imprinted behaviours and not directed feeding behaviours

finally they may  strike out of an aggressive impulse - such as when they strike a spoon or spinner.

BTW I find it hard to believe he banned you from commenting on his Facebook page just for that. The way he looks kind of makes me think of Mussolini! 

Ralph,


That's fine, that's not the real issue here. It's more about his unwillingness to even think there is an alternative point of view and calling out those that point it out.


There are many newer studies that show they do feed for energy however.. I'm going to post them in another thread, because I think it's a great conversation. I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the topic. I don't want to turn this thread into that topic, because it's about something completely different.

[RalphH]

I've never seen salmon that have returned to fresh water actively feeding in the way trout will say on mayflies, cased caddis, salmon parr or sticklebacks. Coho in the Harrison for example are in very close proximity to large schools of sticklebacks but do not rush into those schools the way trout do - often when both are present. I have seen steelhead do this sort of thing but only very sporadically.

It can be maddening to see huge schools of pink salmon for example executing perfect head and tail rises for example but best I can tell they are never feeding when they do that

Pacific salmon are said, by people who have studied their physiology, to undergo  a radical physical transformation once they transition from salt to fresh water. This leaves them both unable to eat in the full sense and unable to return to saltwater and survive. Most Pacific streams are relatively sterile and offer insufficient food energy for a large fish like a salmon to gather more food energy than the energy they would expend by feeding - a negative output of energy that would reduce the probability of their spawning success. Alaska or Great Lake rivers (where they do not have to go through a transition from saltwater back to fresh) may be somewhat different. Most Alaskan River are far more fertile than ours. Steelhead in the Great Lakes are far more prone to feed than here.

The general consensus that Salmon don't feed on their spawning runs is based on thousands of dissections and examination of stomach contents. I doubt some contrary examples don't really change that but I am always interested in any information on salmon or trout or other game fish. Thanks

[TimL]

Yep, Ken respects fish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPQKLTbMqg0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCKTP5f0cqw

Here are em trout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i36pRKeUf_o

lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUxQSFzEzqI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUdabFf9S8Q

Those dogs need fishing licenses you know...

And does he have a license/permit to keep fish [presumably] caught from the wild? I don't think the trout died from the power failure but rather from the unfavorable living conditions (at least for the trout) of the tropical aquarium. He should have known that trout need cool, well-oxygenated water to survive. If you look at the video that shows the live trout, most of them are hyperventilating and clearly under stress from the low oxygen content of the warm water.

[Ambassador]

I gotta say - Ken is making the internet more interesting! That call with BC Hydro was classic.

[clarki]

A four page thread about one guy. Seriously?

Sure, he's a self-inflated bonehead, but is he worth all the bandwidth, time and energy?

My unsolicited advice: move on and talk about things, not people.

(says he who just made the thread one post longer )

[Flytech]

(says he who just made the thread one post longer )

Exactly, why reply?

[clarkii]

I am pretty sure we could make it 5 if we tried

[Flytech]

I am pretty sure we could make it 5 if we tried

LOL, yup. Back to Ken Weisner, did you view his videos at all?

[clarki]

Exactly, why reply?

Because you asked me what I think, silly.

[A Frayed Knot]

I don't know who this clown is honestly but his heads shaped like a pear, you can't trust those kinds of people  pears are kinda hard and tasteless!

It troubles me that bonehead had trout in a tank but mostly because I am pretty sure its illegal.

I tried to look it up but all I found was http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/#Transporting

So I guess technically he's carrying more then the legal limit and would be also considered poaching?

Of course those fish died though it had nothing to do with BC Hydro, since trout are coldwater fish. I asked at my new volunteer gig but rainbow trout are said to be able to survive in temperatures up to and exceeding 77°F (24°C), but stop growing at 73°F (23° C). But without good water flow (current) incredible filtration and good o2 supply. Which would be common knowledge if you have had fish tanks before for smaller fish.

[clarkii]

Yeah I saw his videos...Less then impressed with his character.    The whole incident re. his fish tank shows his lack of respect for not only the fish but also people in authority. 

I have a had time believing his story of a hatchery giving him fish for an experiment for several reasons.
A. I don't know what his profession is, but I'd be surprised if it was resource/environment/fisheries related.
B. He is definetly not the type to be doing any sort of research at a university for a graduating essay or Masters/PhD.
B2. The Animal welfare board would shut that experiment down before it got that far.
C. We already know the maximum temperatures for O. mykiss is around 26 degrees but thats tolerable, so they won't be doing so hot...

It troubles me that bonehead had trout in a tank but mostly because I am pretty sure its illegal.

I tried to look it up but all I found was http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/#Transporting

So I guess technically he's carrying more then the legal limit and would be also considered poaching?

As I am skeptical about the story behind the fish (in fact skeptical is a bad word, lets use exceedingly unconvinced) I believe he chose to angle for them and bring them home.  Now i would assume if he brought more then his quota home they would fine him there.

But the major one that I would throw the book at him with is the transportation of live fish.