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[shuswapsteve]

And http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/spill+response+English+falls+short+world+class/10963080/story.html

Dr. Sumailia is likely very good at what he does; however, what experience does he have with what is going on is what you should ask before accepting his opinions so readily. 

http://www.fisheries.ubc.ca/faculty-staff/rashid-sumaila

[shuswapsteve]

SS will like this one as he loves to defend the government on most issues.

http://www.theprogress.com/news/299397591.html

No, I like to defend the government employees on the water working under these conditions as some of us have a good idea what actual fieldwork is like even though the tasks are different.

[shuswapsteve]

Yet the claim is 80% recovered- that leaves how much left? And apparently the Coast Guard is now claiming it "might" be more, but they won't know for a couple of weeks yet.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-oil-spill-was-small-but-nasty-and-spread-quickly-1.3032385

As I was saying in a previous post, officials don't know how much fuel was originally on board the ship. From my understanding they only know what is on the surface of the water and that has washed up on beaches.  What they are working with now is an estimate.  Environment Canada is currently investigating not only the specific cause of the leak, but how much fuel was on board the ship and if there is any fuel that sunk underneath the ship. The City of Vancouver manager is not saying anything new that the CCG hasn't said already.

[shuswapsteve]

In the event of an oil spill, the harbourmaster at the Port of Bellingham said he would immediately attempt to seal the leak on the vessel, call in response agencies and have a boom in place within the hour.

Harbourmaster Kyle Randolph said Monday that while he did not know the details of the English Bay spill, he was surprised it had taken officials up here so long to contain it.

“If it’s continuing to pump right in front of me, my first obligation is to stop that,” he said. “The response is absolutely key.”


Ok I can agree that is important, but what if he was not sure which vessel to fix in a bay with other vessels in the same area and there are diminishing light conditions?  If he notices an oil spill, does he automatically know where the oil is coming from?  How does he know what ship to fix?  What steps does he takes to find the source?  The story is missing some information here.

“If it is continuing to pump right in front of him” then I understand Mr. Randolph’s view, but that can only be done once he knows where the leak is coming from.  What if there are many ships in the area?  Is it always the case that you find the source and install a boom or fix the leak within minutes or an hour?  What if the leak is not from a ship?

During these events it is disheartening that the media is so reliant on "expert opinions" from individuals which have no knowledge of details of the incident, but are quite willing to criticise the efforts on the water. 

http://www.vancouversun.com/Bellingham+harbourmaster+surprised+slow+spill+response+time/10968296/story.html#ixzz3XLpLYIHF

[skaha]

Harbourmaster Kyle Randolph said Monday that while he did not know the details of the English Bay spill, he was surprised it had taken officials up here so long to contain it.

--IE as an expert he was surprised that we think that the response was world class.

--Also seem to have left out the rest of the article that seems relevant as it is a comment from the previous command.
-Meanwhile, retired Coast Guard Capt. Tony Toxopeus maintains the English Bay spill could have been contained within half an hour if the Kitsilano base was still operating.

The Coast Guard insists the station was only a rescue boat station, but Toxopeus, a coxswain who worked out of Kitsilano, said the base was equipped with a purpose-built oil pollution response vessel, 300 metres of self-inflating boom and other equipment. Crews were trained regularly to deal with oil spill response.

“As soon as we saw there was bunker (oil) we would have hit the alarm button and got moving,” Toxopeus said. “We could have backed the boat in, towed the boom there and be alongside the boat in 30 minutes.”

Toxopeus maintains the small base had been involved in “countless small spills in Vancouver’s waters over the years” and was also the main point of contact for local boaters. “This is what’s so important,” Toxopeus said. “Now that little base is gone, the boaters don’t know who to call.”

--I do not see where anyone is blaiming the current Coast Guard which reacted to the best of their ability given their current situiation and protocal.

--The response is the new normal on our coast... get used to it.

[shuswapsteve]

Harbourmaster Kyle Randolph said Monday that while he did not know the details of the English Bay spill, he was surprised it had taken officials up here so long to contain it.

--IE as an expert he was surprised that we think that the response was world class.

My point was his knowledge of the details of the spill in English Bay, not so much that he was an expert. If one is not involved with the actual response or investigation then don't you think they might be missing something?

--Also seem to have left out the rest of the article that seems relevant as it is a comment from the previous command.
-Meanwhile, retired Coast Guard Capt. Tony Toxopeus maintains the English Bay spill could have been contained within half an hour if the Kitsilano base was still operating.

The Coast Guard insists the station was only a rescue boat station, but Toxopeus, a coxswain who worked out of Kitsilano, said the base was equipped with a purpose-built oil pollution response vessel, 300 metres of self-inflating boom and other equipment. Crews were trained regularly to deal with oil spill response.

“As soon as we saw there was bunker (oil) we would have hit the alarm button and got moving,” Toxopeus said. “We could have backed the boat in, towed the boom there and be alongside the boat in 30 minutes.”

Toxopeus maintains the small base had been involved in “countless small spills in Vancouver’s waters over the years” and was also the main point of contact for local boaters. “This is what’s so important,” Toxopeus said. “Now that little base is gone, the boaters don’t know who to call.”

Not really surprised that current and past CCG could have different opinions especially with the former Kitsilano base. However, in my non-expert opinion, you can have the all this equipment at your fingertips, but the fact still remains that one still has to find the source before you can start installing booms.  How can you be beside the boat that is causing the problem so fast if you are not sure which boat has the leak....or if it is in fact from a boat?

--I do not see where anyone is blaiming the current Coast Guard which reacted to the best of their ability given their current situiation and protocal.

Really?? The media is full of criticism of the current CCG.  Look at what has been posted so far. Not sure what you are getting at.

--The response is the new normal on our coast... get used to it.

Again, look at the timeline of events, what activities were being conducted during the night, the fact that the source needed to be found, and that most of the surface oil so far has been contained. If the CCG didn't start investigating until the next morning, sat on the shore all night and playing cards, or if a large amount of surface oil remained then I could start seeing some of the criticism.

[Novabonker]

No where am I critical of the people that did the clean ups, but the talking heads, political hacks, and stuffed shirts that trot out the utter BS, like "world class response" that bend, obfuscate and gloss over, while busily dislocating shoulders  patting themselves on the back. It's not the rank and file, but the overlords and political hacks that refuse to admit they blew it.

[Novabonker]

And if you can't figure out the source......you're willfully blind or just plain stupid.

[chris gadsden]

No where am I critical of the people that did the clean ups, but the talking heads, political hacks, and stuffed shirts that trot out the utter BS, like "world class response" that bend, obfuscate and gloss over, while busily dislocating shoulders  patting themselves on the back. It's not the rank and file, but the overlords and political hacks that refuse to admit they blew it.

So true, SS seems to missed the point that these people are controlled in what they say by the people above them, the gag law is in effect here, in many people's mind.

[chris gadsden]

Further to my above post, this is an old news item but it shows how the current government works.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/tories-blasted-for-handbook-on-paralyzing-parliament-1.241797

[chris gadsden]

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2015/04/14/if-pipelines-are-dead-harper-helped-kill-them/

[chris gadsden]

https://www.change.org/p/re-open-kitsilano-coast-guard-base?recruiter=54952474&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=des-md-action_alert-reason_msg&fb_ref=Default

[clarkii]

And if you can't figure out the source......you're willfully blind or just plain stupid.

And in the big picture of the bay how many boats are there in the spill itself?

Its great to criticize based on a photo.  Its even better toblook at the big picture.  Yes there are clues in the slick,  but depending on how the currents are running that day and the tide the slick will move in different ways.  You have to be sure when you make a call about the source of a slick.  If you are wrong, it will take longer to reorganize resources and you lost time you could have otherwise spent cleaning up due to a false diagnosis.

[shuswapsteve]

And if you can't figure out the source......you're willfully blind or just plain stupid.

Ahhh...I was waiting for you to start throwing out the insults.  What took you so long?  Is this an example of your improved attitude on this board that you were eluding to before?  And you whine about being attacked? Another gem to save when you start complaining about how others treat you here (the little violin is on standby).

Clarkii basically said what I wanted to.  So, I guess you would have had it all figured out in a matter of minutes after the initial call?  You would have had the aerial photo in hand and rushed right to the boat that had the leak and deployed the boom.  I guess those CCG employees are either willfully blind or just plain stupid that day.  They just didn't care much that night to do much of anything - right?  They took their sweet time coming from Richmond.  They just sat in their boats, cracked open some wobbly pops and just let it all unfold in front of them - right?

Yep, the CCG response was just so terrible....
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/10-vessels-in-vancouver-island-fleet-could-tackle-oil-spill-1.1824127

I thought you said you were not critical of the CCG employees.  Seems like you (and Chris) are conflicted.  You want to bash them, but you don't want to sound like a heartless SOB.  The CCG employees on the ground were the ones that responded that day - not politicians in Ottawa like you and Chris seem to think.

Of course, there is no way that this leak had been going on long before the initial call to the CCG.  I guess the CCG are guilty of not having the crystal ball either and not anticipating this initial call sooner. When was this photo taken and by who?

[shuswapsteve]

So true, SS seems to missed the point that these people are controlled in what they say by the people above them, the gag law is in effect here, in many people's mind.

You seem to miss the obvious which is that it was the CCG employees that responded that day.  Moore, Harper or the CCG commissioner were not there that day.  They didn't call Harper in Ottawa at 9:00pm ET and ask for his advice on what to do or say.

As for controlling what people say there seem to be some of that going on in the Chilliwack area these days where it is fashionable to oppose a hazardous waste recycling facility to save wild salmon but stick it to wild salmon and sturgeon in the Heart of the Fraser River.  Seems like someone has you under some control because you don't want to talk much about it.