Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[fishseeker]

I have been out fishing the Squamish River a lot this past two weeks and I have had a lot of fun getting into fly fishing again.  Last season (2013) I could see the fly fishing seemed to outperform the other techniques and I figured I had to get into it this again this season.

So far I have been very impressed with the results compared to last season and I think it has been entirely due to the fly fishing techniques.  If anything, the conditions seem more challenging this season because the clarity of the river has been variable.   Was not bad on Monday but seemed to deteriorate somewhat yesterday with the heat.  Played around with lots of things to find out what was optimal and I noticed these things:

a)  Flourescent green flies seemed to outperform flourescent pink quite significantly - no idea why.
b) I got more strikes on a sink tip leader than if I tried a regular mono leader with a weighted fly.  My detachable sink tip leader seemed to get my fly down to the desired depth without having it snag the bottom.
c) Initially I was casting out and strip retrieving the fly slowly.   After some experimentation I found I got best results just letting the fly hang in the current below me without really attempting any kind of strip retrieve ( I would let it hang for 30 seconds, strop a bit, let it hand for 30 etc.)   With the poor clarity I believe this gave the fish more opportunity to see the presentation as they were coming up the river. 
d) I tried using similar techniques with small dick nites and other little spoons and got no hits on those -  it seemed like the fish were very hot on the green flies, tepid on the pink and completely disinterested in anything else.
e) In spite of the difficult conditions I was able to do better this season (2015) than last season (2013).

All I can say is it's been a blast getting into this.  I am more of a gear fisherman most of the time but, when the conditions allow, this is hands down the most fun and effective way to catch them.

Got my nephew into it yesterday too and it was a great learning experience for both of us
 

[NexusGoo]

Glad to hear you're having success. I've found green out fishes pink on the Squamish as well with the water clarity we've been having. If you head up to the Mamquam don't be afraid to try blue, I've been hitting all my pinks and even a spring jack on blue.

[Animal Chin]

I caught my first salmon ever on the fly in 2013 exactly as you described, down to the chartreuse fly and hanging the fly below me. I had no experience with fly fishing and since i couldn't cast very far the fly ended up parallel to shore pretty quick and fortunate for me that's when they bit.

I kept on thinking I was flossing them because it was like fish almost every cast at one point, but I'd always get them on the tip/top of the mouth so I'm positive they were bites.

[Zackattack]

Good tips fishseeker! Thnx
What type/length of sink tip were you using?
Ive tried using that technique with blades also, but perhaps theyre spinning too fast at a completely held back position, if that makes sense.
Had great sucesss last squam season just slightly holding back on the blades..

[fishseeker]

Well this is interesting and glad to hear you guys confirming what I noticed.   

I always figured spoons and spinners in flourescent pink should outperform flies given the horrible visibility we had this season but that wasn't the case?  Why green should outperform pink is mysterious to me too simply because green would not show in that water as well as the pink - go figure?

I know some would argue the fish were merely flossed but I don't buy that argument either.  All my hits were when the fly was simply hanging in the current below me so I don't see how the flossing argument would apply.

Nexusgoo,  I thought the Mamquam was closed above that rail bridge for fishing this season and it is only there that I can be bothered to fish it for catch and release purposes.   I generally prefer fishing on that river  on weekends because it is less crowded but not an option this season sadly.   I will keep blue in mind in future seasons for sure

Zackattach,  if all you have is a floating line you can buy detachable sink tips.  You may wan't to ask at the shop what kind of tips work best for scenarios like this because I know you can buy different kinds with different sink ratings and I have no idea what the rating on mine was - I bought mine a number of years back.   Another thing that should work well is merely using a weighted fly maybe pinching a little bit of lead above it if you want it to sink faster - trying that did not seem to work as well for me but I quickly switched to my sink tip without really experimenting more on the weighted flies, I don't see why that should not have worked just as well.  (One of the guys on the forum suggested the use of about 4ft ordinary mono which is an excellent idea - no need to use expensive tapered leaders.   I thought that was brilliant and that worked a charm for me at Furrey Creek).  I am not a very experienced fly fisherman but I have learned a lot just fishing gear on many previous seasons - I hope that is of some help.

Animal Chin,  interesting hearing you confirm what I found out by trial and error over the past two weeks fishing there.

[Zackattack]

Sounds good. Ya Ive tried that also at Furry, either use a slow sinktip w/ light fly or a straight section of mono with a weighted fly. Both seem to work well and have hardly snagged bottom compared to gear.
Will have to figure out river fly fishing now and try those green flies too.

But ya def you can figure out if they were biting or not in the Squam especially as the season progresses. Gear fishing the squamish last season it was easy to see which fish were being flossed based on freshness of the fish alone. We were nailing chromers on metal under a float time and time again whereas, some fly guys were constanly  pulling out whatever fish were near the bottom haha.  Prolly to heavy of a sink tip being used etc.

[Flytech]

I will fish any style, but if I have my druthers it's fly fishing. Glad to see another person rekindle that passion.

[fishseeker]

Sounds good. Ya Ive tried that also at Furry, either use a slow sinktip w/ light fly or a straight section of mono with a weighted fly. Both seem to work well and have hardly snagged bottom compared to gear.
Will have to figure out river fly fishing now and try those green flies too.

But ya def you can figure out if they were biting or not in the Squam especially as the season progresses. Gear fishing the squamish last season it was easy to see which fish were being flossed based on freshness of the fish alone. We were nailing chromers on metal under a float time and time again whereas, some fly guys were constanly  pulling out whatever fish were near the bottom haha.  Prolly to heavy of a sink tip being used etc.

Same experience for me last season and I was pretty skeptical about the fly fishing not flossing so I figured I had to try it out again for myself this time.   

In the early days I used to fish for chums using a sink tip line and I think it was just too heavy.   I ended up fouling them too often - hence the reason I gave up fly fishing for salmon in favor of short floating.   This time I was only fouling pinks if I allowed my leader to drift into the shallower water where the old boots were holding.   As long as I made sure I was hanging the fly in the deeper faster water outside of those zones I rarely foul hooked any -  I also think the leader with my 6wt does not sink as quickly as the leader I was using with my 9wt setup for chums hence the improved experience.

Any leader that gets the fly down in the current without having it dredge the bottom is going to work well I think.

Definitely worth trying out flies in flourescent green - the only problem on the Squamish now is it seems pretty well done as of yesterday.  I pretty well gave up on it in favor of Furrey Creek because there were hardly any fresh fish left in the river.

[Knnn]

Why green should outperform pink is mysterious to me too simply because green would not show in that water as well as the pink - go figure?

The colour chartreuase penetrates (can be perceived) to a greater depth in water than many other colours, particularly compared to reds and pinks.  The presence of silt will obviously impact this to a greater degree than in clear water, but I would guess that chartreause would remain more visible.  More info here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTi5nJqEzvo

The impact of dirty water on colour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5P6UMGiT7o

[Zackattack]

Same experience for me last season and I was pretty skeptical about the fly fishing not flossing so I figured I had to try it out again for myself this time.   

In the early days I used to fish for chums using a sink tip line and I think it was just too heavy.   I ended up fouling them too often - hence the reason I gave up fly fishing for salmon in favor of short floating.   This time I was only fouling pinks if I allowed my leader to drift into the shallower water where the old boots were holding.   As long as I made sure I was hanging the fly in the deeper faster water outside of those zones I rarely foul hooked any -  I also think the leader with my 6wt does not sink as quickly as the leader I was using with my 9wt setup for chums hence the improved experience.

Any leader that gets the fly down in the current without having it dredge the bottom is going to work well I think.

Definitely worth trying out flies in flourescent green - the only problem on the Squamish now is it seems pretty well done as of yesterday.  I pretty well gave up on it in favor of Furrey Creek because there were hardly any fresh fish left in the river.

Ya well have to try those green flies. I guess as you mentioned, its a fine balance to find the right sink tip to sink enough in the river current but not to heavy in that it will  dredge bottom haha

[fishseeker]

The colour chartreuase penetrates (can be perceived) to a greater depth in water than many other colours, particularly compared to reds and pinks.  The presence of silt will obviously impact this to a greater degree than in clear water, but I would guess that chartreause would remain more visible.  More info here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTi5nJqEzvo

The impact of dirty water on colour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5P6UMGiT7o

That explains it perfectly, thanks Knn

Something for me to bear in in mind Fishing the Fraser river for sure.

[FlyFishin Magician]

Congrats on finding success with the fly.  I've always found that certain presentations - fly or gear, work well for certain species.  For example, I've found that flies tend to outproduce gear for pink salmon hands down.  If there is any clarity, the fly can be very deadly - I mean fish-a-cast deadly.  On the other hand, give me a spinning rod with a pink spoon and I'll be glad just to hook a single fish!  LOL.

I've had similar success fly fishing for rainbow trout using chironomids.  When the conditions are right, it can be a fish-a-cast if you match the hatch!  Rainbow trout also can't resist a well presented searching pattern like a leech, pumpkinhead, or even a Doc Spratley when the chironomids are not the food source of the day.

But there are situations where gear/bait outperforms the fly (Yes - this is coming from a guy who used to ONLY fly fish).  In my experience, fishing quality cured roe for coho at first light can also be fish-a-cast action.  20+ coho landed in a morning using roe is not unheard of.  In the past, a successful day for me for coho on the fly would be about a dozen or so fish hooked with 6 - 8 fish landed.  Sure, there were days when the fly was spectacular, but overall on average I've hooked WAY more coho on roe than with the fly.

So that's my experience in a nutshell.  Then again, it's all about getting out there and having fun...and maybe learning a few things on the water while were at it!   

[MetalAndFeathers]

Congrats on finding success with the fly.  I've always found that certain presentations - fly or gear, work well for certain species.  For example, I've found that flies tend to outproduce gear for pink salmon hands down.

LOL , my neighbor said he wont use his fly rod for pinks as he snags far to many and only swings flash under a float. I fished with him to see how he does and he,no word of a lie, gets them every cast. All in the mouth too! The only problem is he loses about 45-60% of the fish he hooks. He out fished me 4-10 and and and hooked 80% in the mouth while i got 45-60% in the mouth. Not trying to bash you for saying that but it all varies on the technique and way its presented to the fish so we cant guarantee which is better.

[fishseeker]

I have done very well with gear too and in many situations I prefer that approach  - I still think casting a spoon is one of the most versatile ways to fish.   Getting good clearance for a back cast is very frequently an issue for me in some spots,  fly fishing on the tidal Fraser not great in the locations I know about and I just don't get enough casting distance to cover water fly fishing.

I have been fishing with spoons and jigs for a number of years now and fly fishing is just the next thing to try.  Where it is practical for me to get em fly fishing I will prefer it hands down over the other techniques though.  I just get such a rush seeing my line peeling of a fly reel and that direct contact with the fish can't be beat.

Why a small fly should outperform a spinner or spoon in that dirty squamish water is a bit of a mystery to me.  I can only assume the pinks get a little more sensitive about the size of the presentation once they hit the rivers because they sure as hell don't care about that in the Tidal Fraser - ha, ha

Tried roe in my earlier fishing days with limited success. I know it works and I know I am neglecting a very good technique but I just hate the mess and dealing with row curing is just a pain for me.  Done respectably with spoons for Coho and now I am looking forward to going after coho and chums with my 9wt and a floating line.

Still got a lot to learn as always.

[FlyFishin Magician]

LOL , my neighbor said he wont use his fly rod for pinks as he snags far to many and only swings flash under a float. I fished with him to see how he does and he,no word of a lie, gets them every cast. All in the mouth too! The only problem is he loses about 45-60% of the fish he hooks. He out fished me 4-10 and and and hooked 80% in the mouth while i got 45-60% in the mouth. Not trying to bash you for saying that but it all varies on the technique and way its presented to the fish so we cant guarantee which is better.

Interesting point M&F.  In fact, when Stratocaster and I were last at the Squamish, the water was so coloured, and there were so many fish, that it was very difficult not to snag fish with the fly rod set-up.  In fact, I would either go with a full floating line, or just "dangle" the fly in the current.  Stratocaster did bring his drift rod and just put a fly on the end of his set-up and nailed fish after fish in the mouth.  Now - I suspect that many of these fish were flossed and the gear set-up just put the fly in the right spot, as opposed to the fly line that would "sweep" though the fish if drifted through or retrieved.  Another point I'll make is we often will put a fly on the end of a drift set-up as opposed to lures or wool.  Pinks love sparse patterns, and I suspect that your neighbour's set-up ("flash under a float") is just that.  Or when you say "flash" are you talking about spinners/spoons???

HOWEVER - when there is decent visibility, I've experienced that the pinks will chase down a fly and I've observed that the fly generally out produces the gear for pinks.  Not always of course.  But each to their own...

EDIT - I forgot to mention the beaches.  In my experience, I've observed that flies tend to pick up more pinks on the beaches than the gear - provided of course that the fish are within casting range.  Even then, Stratocaster will put on a "bubble float" with a fly on the end of his spinning outfit and prefers this over casting spoons/spinners.