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[Tylsie]

As was mentioned in another thread, there is hope that the current closure will bring in new regulations to end TOW. I am wondering what these regulations would entail, or what people would suggest. I can not think of any that would be effective. Examples, and the problems I foresee,

Maximum Leader Length: It would basically eliminate fly fishing, there are times where I am fishing from a boat that I want a longer leader, just attach the weight to the main line so it is impossible to determine where leader starts.

Ban Bottom Bouncing: BB is a legitimate form of sport fishing practiced around the world. It is mine, and several others I know, preferred method of steelhead fishing in clear water. Just because a few people have perverted it does not mean that those who practice it ethically should be punished. And in the end would do nothing to really stop people, they will just find a new way.

End the Sport Sockeye Fishery: This would do nothing. The Genie is out of the bottle. People can still floss under the guise of targeting Chinook. Then in large run years, it would only result in the continued sale of sockeye by other user groups that have proven they are not above dumping one days unsold catch rather than store them because they know they can catch more tomorrow. Nets take more in one day than all sport fishers dream in a lifetime.

I cannot think of a realistic scenarios that will have effective results in a timely manner. Yes, education will eventually win but it will take time. So I in all seriousness, I want to hear people's ideas to end this blight as another member calls it. 



 

[DanL]

Just throwing this out there. Other jurisdictions have taken on to tackle snagging. Oregon apparently instituted new anti-snagging measures back in 2013. This is the new definition of snagging in Oregon as quoted from the 2015 Sport Fishing Regulation:

"Snagging: Taking or attempting to take a fish with a hook and line in a way or manner where the fish is not enticed to voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. Gamefish which are hooked other than inside of its mouth must be released immediately unharmed."

Emphasis is mine. This on it's own could essentially prohibit 'non-selective" methods, to use the DFO terminology. If you know that you are routinely hooking fish that didn't actively bite, then you are snagging, regardless whether the fish comes in head first or backwards.

The rationale for implementing this wording:

"Rationale: Help to curtail illegal snagging activities and allow legitimate anglers more opportunities to fish for and catch salmon and steelhead. Oregon State Police officers will be able to articulate in court that the angler’s actions are not conducive to a fish “voluntarily” taking the hook in its mouth. By considering the anglers fishing technique, along with any gear configuration, officers can communicate in courts that the violator is doing the opposite of “attracting” fish. In other words, the gear is chasing the fish, versus the fish chasing the gear. (ODFW/OSP Staff)"

Again emphasis mine. They basically have defined sport fishing as getting fish to actively bite. I think many people would inherently agree with this definition though there is currently no wording in the BC regs to such effect. If we were to introduce such wording, the only currently legal fishery I can think of offhand that would be impacted would be flossing. Since these new regs were introduced in Oregon, I dont know if they've had the intended effect or not.

Personally I think a leader length restriction could also be an effective measure too. Bottom bouncing is a valid and legitimate technique, but there is no reason for ridiculously long leaders other than to floss. By giving enforcement officers some discretion in determining if someone is fishing 'non-selectively'  they can grant exceptions for fly fishing, bar fishing, back trolling plugs, etc without needing to try and list every acceptable technique in the regs.

Having said all that, any new regs wont be particularly useful without enforcement.

[ShaunO]

Maximum Leader Length: It would basically eliminate fly fishing, there are times where I am fishing from a boat that I want a longer leader, just attach the weight to the main line so it is impossible to determine where leader starts.

Any proposed changes should specifically specify that Area 2 fishing, using a weight greater than 14 grams (1/2 oz) must be done with a float of equal or greater buoyancy and a leader no longer than (just throwing this out there) 36 inches.  It might sound complex but it gives fly fisherman some latitude and prohibits leaders greater than 36 inches behind a weight of .5 oz or greater.  Personally, I think that bouncing betty type weights need to be addressed as they are seem to be produced (at least in the LM) for bottom bouncing purposes.  In the lower mainland, do they have any other legitimate use that cannot be supplemented with another type of weight?

[Chris S]

I think trying to outright ban flossing would be effectively closing Fraser River sockeye to everybody other than netters, this may be politically unacceptable to the masses.  I think a total ban on all forms of bottom bouncing (including legitimate forms) except in the Fraser River during a sockeye opening: would be more acceptable to the masses, authorities and those whose livelihood depend on fishing.  This may be easier to enforce and with current returns the way they are: flossing may only be seen for a few weeks once every four years.

[halcyonguitars]

Would someone describe a legitimate form of bottom bouncing?

[samw]

Would someone describe a legitimate form of bottom bouncing?

In the context of the OP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOxHE7N_-Mk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWnBhyzbMLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8V0kVa62k

[Flytech]

Who cares about legitimate BB, as per usual a select few ruin things for the masses.

[chris gadsden]

Not an easy solution that is for sure. The sockeye fishery the FVSS worked hard to get opened on the Fraser many years ago has created a monster now as some perdicted it would and now effects our recreational angling on the Fraser River greater than ever this year, that is why some anglers would not take part once it was determined it was just a snagging method to take fish. I was one of those and stopped around 15 years ago as did many others.

As I have said many times I still feel badly that I was part of the team from FVSS that worked with FOC to get it open.

We now have created a senario where many new people have taken it up and this is the only way they know how to take fish, of course we know it has spread to all our rivers I know I have said all this many times.

Many of these new people, not all, I must add did not pay heed to FOC and sports groups request to fish selectively but I think FOC numbers of those BB were out of wack as I saw a lot of bar fishers in the lower reaches but I guess above the Agassix Rosedale Bridge had a high volume of flossers. There was good work by Rod Clapton from the Drift Fishers to put out the poster that was paid for by Fred Helmer to try and get people to fish selectively.

Of course the F/N fishery has something to do with the recent closures as well, we all know that but that is for the Goverment of Canada and Fisheries and Oceans Canada to deal with, we can not change that. Of course changing weather patterns are affecting survival rates for some salmon stocks as well.

Of course the plus side and there usually is a plus side to most situations is the sockeye openings, last year for sure, the only one I see is, it was very good for the economy and creates millions for the Fraser Valley in spinoff dollars from tackle stores, to hotels etc..

The solutions as I said at the start will not be easy but maybe we need to return to what it was a few years ago when we did not have a chum, pink or sockeye fishery when our only target salmon were coho and chinook which the latter seem to be in good shape by the test fishery results.  Do we also move to a fixed rod situation as well when chinooks are open? 

All I know some of this will have to be done and bite the bullit so to speak or, as my  dear late friend, Gwyn Joiner, now gone 3 years ago yesterday, said many years ago, "Chris unless we stop this BB'ing we will only have lake fishing to enjoy." How true that statement was Gwyn.

[Chris S]

Would someone describe a legitimate form of bottom bouncing?

Legitimate bottom bouncing: Enticing fish to bite your presentation by bouncing it along the bottom of a water body.
Illegitimate bottom bouncing: Enticing your presentation to hook/snag fish by bouncing it along the bottom of a water body.

Both can be done with any length leader, presentation type and sinker light enough to touch but not rest on the bottom. Since an identical set up can be used for both forms, it would be impossible to regulate unless both forms are banned.

[Gone_Fishin_]

There is no legitimate way to BB the Fraser River. Yes there is an ethical method for deep, clear pools in rivers and streams but in no way can you Bottom Bounce the Fraser River in an ethical form. Simple and effecitve rule; No Bottom Bouncing on the Fraser River for Salmon. I would also prefer this for all rivers, for the small percentage that performs this method in a legal/effective way doesnt outweigh the group we would remove from our rivers and i think that banning one method you may use to rid hundreds of snaggers off the rivers would be better in my opinion. 

Easy as that, yes it leaves a bunch of areas open to other forms of flossing/snagging but lets start with no more betties on the river and then move forward with the other methods afterwards like leader size restriction and so forth. Again this should not be necessary as mentioned below;

"Snagging: Taking or attempting to take a fish with a hook and line in a way or manner where the fish is not enticed to voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. Gamefish which are hooked other than inside of its mouth must be released immediately unharmed."

We need to get rid of the 'hooked in the head its legal'

Nothing pisses me off more when im fishing run, or coming to fish and i see someone tossing a betty or chunk of lead with 8' leader into the river (vedder, chehalis, ect) then after everyone else sees them hooking way more fish then they are they transfer over to this style of fishing. Gets my blood boiling....

[Gone_Fishin_]

it would be impossible to regulate unless both forms are banned.

That is why both forms need to be banned. For everyone complaining about BB, then also saying it is an effective method and they fish this way needs to give up this style to remove it from our systems.

For the one or two pools a year, and likely only a few times a year youll ever use this method lets just get rid of it completely. I fish the odd pool and area with a 16-20" leader and chunk of lead simply because i can not get down deep enough float fishing (30'). If i had to give up this method and odd time i fish here to stop BB. Then sign me up, ill swing a blade through next time or pop a jig.

[Tangles]

How about working all towards total closure on commercial netting in Fraser. This just makes sense on so many levels - it has the greatest impact/harvest on stocks (last years commercial harvest was close to 6 million sockeye), it is absolutely NON-SELECTIVE as so many chinook, coho and steelhead get dumpedback dead in the water. Not to mention it benefits only a select few, actually very limited number of people.
I say leave FN do their thing, allow general public to catch their two sockeye every few years (great impact on local economy) while banning commersial harvests and total ban on any sort of bottom bouncing on any river other than limited sockeye openings. Like how the hell some people here think is ethical to BB for steelhead (protected species) is just beyond me. Just because they lay on the bottom and may be more lethargic that somehow makes it ethical to BB or what?? Ban all BB no matter what, it's easy for an officer to determine when a rig is intended to tick bottom, including desguised float flossers.
 And last but not least we are in dire need of more enforcement, which means this fall please do VOTE and remember how the curren Harper agenda destroyed Coast Guard, DFO and shut down so much science work!

[Drewhill]

What about just having a 1 sockeye limit? With this can be measures like fishing handling regs similar to sturgeon.

[Flubberdubber]

Close the Fraser River Sockeye Fishery completely! Fine the poachers that insist on taking them when it is closed! Hire more officers to enforce the regs both Federally and Provincially.Why the hell are the CO's wandering around telling morons to put out their campfires when they should be enforcing fish and wildlife regulations.

[Tangles]

I don't have exact figures but last year's total sport catch of sockeye (including saltwater) was around 100 000 fish compared to 6 million commercially harvested(not incl FN). Why are we missing the elephant in the room.