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[ShaunO]

Lastly why not ban any weight that looks like a golf ball from every stream in the Province?

THIS is the question I would like answered!  Do bouncing betties have any other legitimate use other than being used for bottom bouncing? 

[ByteMe]

And the FN in the river is another huge number.  People on this site don't want to see the elephant.  They want to look at the other dog getting scraps from the table and complain that that other dog got their scraps incorrectly instead of looking at the what was on the table and where the real issues are happening.

YEP!!!.............here's an example, a couple of years ago on an island system there was a FN opening for springs for 1900 pcs, after all said and done, the harvest was almost 12,000 pcs with 2 enforcement boats present to monitor the numbers, at the same time there was a ban for retention for recreational fishing because of the low numbers of returns..........Go figure. For the rec fisherman, instead of fighting each other on rules and ethics, go lobby your MP's and ask them why DFO lost their case in The B.C Court of Appeals to prevent FN from selling their fish at roadside stands and to the consumer market. This ruling allows the to sale over and above food and ceremonial needs. This is starting to sound like the drug trade...if there is demand there will always be supply

[RalphH]

go lobby your MP's and ask them why DFO lost their case in The B.C Court of Appeals to prevent FN from selling their fish at roadside stands and to the consumer market. This ruling allows the to sale over and above food and ceremonial needs. This is starting to sound like the drug trade...if there is demand there will always be supply

They lost because they had a bad case. There's no legal reasons native can't sell salmon. The food and ceremonial opening regulations is a DFO fiction with no legal basis. That's why they introduced the economic opportunity openings. Far better to work with native communities as what they lose in court they can no longer control.

[Flytech]

Lastly why not ban any weight that looks like a golf ball from every stream in the Province?

Amen Ralph!

[TNAngler]

when the commercial fishery happens the 1st Nations take (both the food/ceremonial part of the economic opportunity part) is usually about 20% of the total. After about a century of injustice that amounted to racist theft, 1st Nations in BC won back their right to fish and 1st priority access to the resource. That's not going to change for a very long time, if ever. I also would not want to see or expect netting in river or at the mouth to be brought to an end. The alternatives simply are not all that workable. The commercial fishing industry is how the general public gets access to the resource, so it is necessary. Better management and techniques can substantially reduce the unintended impacts of net fishing.

Why do you not want to see netting in the river stopped?  When the sockeye run this year was downgraded, it was amazing how all of the openings now are dip net or fish wheel on the Fraser.  If you are going to try and say that wasn't to try and limit stress on sockeye or reduce by catch then I would be interested in your explanation.  If it is for one of those two reasons, then perhaps those nets should only be allowed in the river during sockeye runs on years where there is plenty of returning fish, and not just switching to a larger mesh because obviously that wasn't enough this year.

In fact, if you have watched fish around nets, a sockeye can easily get caught in an 8 inch mesh.  Unless they get extremely tangled, they are usually able to work their way out and continue on.  There have been so much discussion on here lately about the effect of catch and release on these fish.  You think this is any better?

If the runs are hurting, either everyone is on board and working to protect the runs or you are going to lose support.  If one group doesn't contribute but instead gets everything they can get now, screw the future, then there will be plenty of other people who will just say burn the whole thing down, get what you can, get your memories now to remember for when there are no fish.  That is what happened in Washington on a couple rivers.  They ended up fishing things down to where whole runs were extremely endangered and made it so nobody could fish for them.

[TNAngler]

Lastly why not ban any weight that looks like a golf ball from every stream in the Province?

When fishing with dick nights growing up, we were essentially bottom bouncing.  You can do that with a tear dropped shaped sinker which would easily get past your ban and yet not solve any issue you would try and solve with it.  Unless people didn't figure it out but I don't believe that would be the case.

[ByteMe]

Amen Ralph!

because then you would have to ban pencil lead, split shot as they serve the same purpose....to get the bait to them bottom where our species of salmon are, unlike  Atlantics which sit in middle of river currents, just subsurface, where short floating or no weighting works wonders. Why not, instead of trying to change methods or ethical ways of fishing, just go with CIRCLE HOOKS to reduce catch and mortality rates, much like when they banned treble hooks, single barbed hooks. I am sure we could reduce the recreational fishing harvest numbers of 100,000 by at least 20% or more........which would give FN and commercial fishery a 20% increase in their quota, much like a department budget," if ya don't spend it,you  ain't  getting it next year". Each system no matter how big or small can sustain only a certain amount of fish, after that it does more harm than good. A good example is the Quinsum River last year when they had so many pinks return that majority never made it to the spawning channels, and now they cut back harvesting by half, I am sure DFO would cut back on harvest or close the rivers like now if they felt Sockeye stocks would be threatened. I , myself am more concerned about forest practices destroying stream habitats, and future Mt. Poly etal  tailing pond breaches than the guy with a long leader and a rubber ball fishing beside me

[fossil]

Ban Lure fishing at all! Bait fisherman is eventually the highest state! 

[Rodney]

You all realize that you had the exact same discussion on this subject two years ago when we had the same closure from August 15th to 30th 2013 right? How's that working out for your fishing trips this year? Feel free to keep insisting the way you fish should continue because other user groups have significantly larger impacts on the stocks. We can hang the rods dry again next year and repeat the same discussion.

The representatives of the Upper Fraser Valley SFAC have been busy exploring ideas on how an exclusively selective fishery for chinook salmon on the Fraser River can take place in the summer so no future closures like this will take place again. IMO, some fishing is better than no fishing, but I highly doubt these changes will happen anytime soon based on the amount of people who can't give up flossing.

Personally it makes no difference to me whether it opens or not. There are plenty of fisheries in other parts of this province to enjoy during this time of the year.

BTW, the summer run sockeye salmon size has been upgraded to 1.6 million fish so Lower Fraser First Nations are expecting to have some limited chinook salmon gill net openings this weekend.

How's your summer chinook salmon fishing season going so far?

[RalphH]

Ban Lure fishing at all! Bait fisherman is eventually the highest state! 

highest only in the sense they all smell bad.

[RalphH]

because then you would have to ban pencil lead, split shot as they serve the same purpose....to get the bait to them bottom where our species of salmon are, unlike  Atlantics which sit in middle of river currents, just subsurface, where short floating or no weighting works wonders. Why not, instead of trying to change methods or ethical ways of fishing, just go with CIRCLE HOOKS to reduce catch and mortality rates, much like when they banned treble hooks, single barbed hooks. I am sure we could reduce the recreational fishing harvest numbers of 100,000 by at least 20% or more........which would give FN and commercial fishery a 20% increase in their quota, much like a department budget," if ya don't spend it,you  ain't  getting it next year". Each system no matter how big or small can sustain only a certain amount of fish, after that it does more harm than good. A good example is the Quinsum River last year when they had so many pinks return that majority never made it to the spawning channels, and now they cut back harvesting by half, I am sure DFO would cut back on harvest or close the rivers like now if they felt Sockeye stocks would be threatened. I , myself am more concerned about forest practices destroying stream habitats, and future Mt. Poly etal  tailing pond breaches than the guy with a long leader and a rubber ball fishing beside me

I kind of have some trouble following what you are trying to say. I'm not sure if you've fished Atlantic Salmon but they certainly do not sit in the middle of a river just sub-surface as you say. Primarily I fly fish though I chuck spinners and spoons from time to time for which I don't use weight. I'd be fine with banning lead. My suggestion to ban all weights that look like a golf ball was partly tongue in cheek but also 'cause I was thinking most folks who chuck betties wouldn't know how to adapt if they couldn't use them. I think it was what the discussion was mean to be about and the main objective is to reduce angling through regulations specifically targeting a certain segment - like a bait ban. FWIW it's worth circle hooks, treble hooks and barbed singles have never been shown to have lower mortality rates in c&r fisheries. When used to avoid deep ingestion of hooks circle hooks have been found in c&r research to have mortality rates of about 10% or 2x the amount associated with artificial flies and lures and barbed single barbed hooks. Comparatively barbed hooks with flies and lures have higher rates that are statistically meaningless and trebles barely so. Use of barbs no barbs singles trebles are meaningless in situations involving deep ingestion. I'd be ok with circle hooks. I haven't used them much. I find them hard to sharpen but if that's the way the world goes I'd be ok with that.

TNAngler - not arguing with what fish wheel and other selective techniques can do but they won't replace nets. Can a wheel work in the lower river or the mouth? How about in Johnstone Strait? The highest demand is for ocean fresh fish which are the best quality. Commercial troll gets some - but in most cases it requires nets - gill or seine.

[chris gadsden]

You all realize that you had the exact same discussion on this subject two years ago when we had the same closure from August 15th to 30th 2013 right? How's that working out for your fishing trips this year? Feel free to keep insisting the way you fish should continue because other user groups have significantly larger impacts on the stocks. We can hang the rods dry again next year and repeat the same discussion.




BTW, the summer run sockeye salmon size has been upgraded to 1.6 million fish so Lower Fraser First Nations are expecting to have some limited chinook salmon gill net openings this weekend.

As Rod says above, slaming other user will get us no where, think of ways that help keep us recreational anglers in the water, that is what we are faced with once again.

Also here is the notice Rod spoke about. At the Fraser River Panel(FRP) meeting today the Summer run size was increased to 1.6M.  As such, the Department will be authorizing very limited chinook-directed gill net fisheries in the Lower Fraser Area this weekend.  These fisheries require fishers to target chinook by using large mesh gillnets and there will be no retention of sockeye permitted.  Please note that planning discussions between DFO and First River First Nations are still underway at this time; once plans are finalized, this info. will be posted on the DFO website at the following link:  http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/index-eng.html

 

Also, a reminder that detailed information and updates on the current status of Fraser R. sockeye and pink returns will be outlined in today’s DFO Fraser R. sockeye Update Fishery Notice at: 

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm  and PSC News Release at:  http://www.psc.org/news_frpnews.htm

 

Barbara Mueller
Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Resource Manager, Lower Fraser Area
Tel.:  604.666.2370

Fax:  604.666.7112

c. : 604.312.6360
Email:  barbara.mueller@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

 

[ByteMe]

RalphH..........Yes, many years ago, was told to cast out with an int. fly line and a weightless fly, worked pretty good, and why BB is so popular here on the west coast is because our species hug the bottom on their migration, I have definitely experience the difference between a beadhead fly and fly tied with dumbbell eyes. The latter out fishes 4-1. As for circle hooks, I think it's the current best solution to avoid flossing, snagging ever BB till the regs become more definitive or revised

[clarkii]

RalphH..........Yes, many years ago, was told to cast out with an int. fly line and a weightless fly, worked pretty good, and why BB is so popular here on the west coast is because our species hug the bottom on their migration, I have definitely experience the difference between a beadhead fly and fly tied with dumbbell eyes. The latter out fishes 4-1. As for circle hooks, I think it's the current best solution to avoid flossing, snagging ever BB till the regs become more definitive or revised

Well when you consider that atlantics can spawn more then once, whilst our pac salmon do not it would potentially be similar to how a steelhead will come up for a fly, despite hugging the bottom.  I'll stop there as I have not fly fished for salmon enough to determine if they also come up in systems that arent 6" or less visibility.

[Tangles]

The commercial fishing industry is how the general public gets access to the resource, so it is necessary.

I can't quite agree here, what I'm seeing in stores almost year round is farmed atlantics(which I wouldn't touch with a stick) with the ocasional Alaskan sockeye thrown in, sometimes even farmed steelhead, oh yes and sometimes silver chum(which is still not good for bbq).
I just don't see netting Fraser to be so much beneficial for the average Joe's table.
I'm still learning on these subjects but do you really believe commercial Fraser netting has nothing to do with the crash of Fraser chinook and sockeye?
As for BB, snagging and the spillover effect on other systems I think it wouldn't matter what rules we implement if there's noone to enforce it. I phoned three times RAPP last week alone for instances of full trunks of snagged fish yet no one ever showed up, and I don't think the guy on the other side of the call didn't care.
Yeah go Harper I guess