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[ByteMe]

Well when you consider that atlantics can spawn more then once, whilst our pac salmon do not it would potentially be similar to how a steelhead will come up for a fly, despite hugging the bottom.  I'll stop there as I have not fly fished for salmon enough to determine if they also come up in systems that arent 6" or less visibility.

Not enough experience  for fishing Atlantics either, but the only time I fished them was with a floating line and dry flies and int. sink tip with a subsurface fly, never had to put on a heavy sink tip, must say it was pure fun having a salmon take a dry fly, have had summer run steelhead do the same but never a coho, or spring, but some claim they do

[RalphH]

ByteMe - Atlantic generally  hold on the bottom and follow the bottom as they move upstream. In warmer water say at and above 10 to 12 degrees or so they will rise several feet to a fly. Steelhead do more or less the same. For summer runs and for many Atlantic Salmon water in the Maritimes this is precisely the situation - water in the 12 to 18 degree range and fish that respond very aggressively to swung flies on or just below the surface. In colder water as with winter and early spring in Scotland, Norway and Ireland or late fall the fish don't do this as readily and traditionally were fished with flies tied on large irons (heavy wired hooks in the 1/0 to 5/0 size range and even larger) that would sink 3 to 5 feet. Use of 'gear' with spoons plugs and prawns with weight was and is still common. Today fly anglers use metal tubes to sink flies effectively and sink tips where it's permitted (Nova Scotia for example) and with worries about snagging fish.

It's true Pacific Salmon are less inclined to rise to the surface but they will move to a fly or a lure quite a distance. They just aren't as surface oriented as steelhead or Atlantics. More often Pacific Salmon are fished in water that's already getting too cold to lure them to take a fly swung just under the surface.

TN I don't know where you buy your fish but most certainly sockeye are 95% net caught throughout the Pacific and are available fresh, frozen or canned year round. The same is true of the other 4 species to some extent. I heard a local commercial fisherman interviewed - part of a family owned business who said they had done well for sockeye up north and in Barclay Sound plus for chinook near Bela Coola and that had offset the lack of a chance to fish the Fraser. A lot of people including me won't or avoid as much as possible farmed salmon.

Sockeye returns in 2010 and 2014 indicated that far from decline the Fraser system is quite able to produce lots of fish, more than enough for a robust harvest by all sectors. I've lived here for 60 years and it was always like this. Periods of low to mediocre returns and then sudden abundance.Why some runs fail and others do very well is a complex of many factors. Why sport fisherman invariably focus on just 2 or 3 - 2 of which are always rival user groups, is something you and others have to think about.

[ByteMe]

RalphH..........Ah....makes sense. My only experience was back east in Quebec in the fall definitely warm, and yes, they were extremely aggressive  towards drys, what a rush, would love to do it again

[Wiseguy]

Who cares about legitimate BB, as per usual a select few ruin things for the masses.

I care to BB with a bit of pencil lead and a short leader, been doing it many yrs before the Sockeye fishery on the Fraser was even thought about,on certain deep pools on certain rivers where this method is the only way of getting down to the fish. A certain few who employ this ethical method of angling is not ruining it for the masses.

[RalphH]

I care to BB with a bit of pencil lead and a short leader, been doing it many yrs before the Sockeye fishery on the Fraser was even thought about,on certain deep pools on certain rivers where this method is the only way of getting down to the fish. A certain few who employ this ethical method of angling is not ruining it for the masses.

good post. Fishing like this has been done going back into the early 20th century. Haig Brown fished like this in the winter months before he got better at catching winter runs on the fly. A light devon Minnow and an ounce or so of weight. You can read about it in the The Western Angler,

[Tangles]

I don't know where you buy your fish but most certainly sockeye are 95% net caught throughout the Pacific and are available fresh, frozen or canned year round. The same is true of the other 4 species to some extent. I heard a local commercial fisherman interviewed - part of a family owned business who said they had done well for sockeye up north and in Barclay Sound plus for chinook near Bela Coola and that had offset the lack of a chance to fish the Fraser. A lot of people including me won't or avoid as much as possible farmed salmon.

Sockeye returns in 2010 and 2014 indicated that far from decline the Fraser system is quite able to produce lots of fish, more than enough for a robust harvest by all sectors. I've lived here for 60 years and it was always like this. Periods of low to mediocre returns and then sudden abundance.Why some runs fail and others do very well is a complex of many factors. Why sport fisherman invariably focus on just 2 or 3 - 2 of which are always rival user groups, is something you and others have to think about.

We are obviusly far apart on this but anyway,
I was talking about FRASER sockeye not about ocean caught.
Also I don't buy any fish from anywhere, my family eats what I catch and we do well so far. I don't trust the handling practises of most grosers.
Same question stays - how do you justify compromising a stock if it's only to put a product for a few weeks every few years which is the case of Fraser sockeye. And if it's like you were saying that commercial boats compensated with bigger catches in the chuck, why not make it the status quo? It wouldn't even be so significant impact on local economy because commies would still maintain same livelihood.
Even though I realise it's almost impossible to happen (before we ruin everything completely) but why not just ban commersial netting in Fraser and other rivers alltogether. Thousands of treathened species dumped back dead as by-catch, wild coho, steelhead, native trout even sturgeon all go wasted. How long before we ruin it to the point of no return if we are not long past it already.
Just keep commercial in the chuck and leave our rivers alone. And don't get me started on the depletion of the oceans because it's a whole different conversation.
Also it's not very acurate to point at last years return which was biggest so far in quite a while. What about the 2009 fish, what aboutthe chinook which is in such a dire straits I can't belive they still allow wild fish retention.
We polute and harvest all there is like there's no tomorrow yet pick on eachother for petty little stuff.

[RalphH]

We are obviusly far apart on this but anyway,
I was talking about FRASER sockeye not about ocean caught.
Also I don't buy any fish from anywhere, my family eats what I catch and we do well so far. I don't trust the handling practises of most grosers.

Where do you think the sockeye caught in the ocean are going? I don't think a ban of net fishing in the Fraser is going to happen any time and certainly not because you want one. Just read Rod's and Mr Gadsden's comments above. Much of the rest of your post , well I can't see how I can comment on it beyond it seems done more in a mood of hysteria and anger.

[Tangles]

That's definitely the easiest way to escape all arguments - anger burst, carry on lol
And I don't need to take yours or other members opinion as The Fishing Bible of Salmon, ok? Everyone is entitled to their own views wether you like it or not.

[RalphH]

I didn't say you aren't entitled to your opinion. I said I don't expect such a thing will happen.You think that's an angry outburst?  I have lots of opinions on things which I don't expect will happen or won't happen anytime in the foreseeable future.  Besides I mostly responded to another user with a handle strangely similar to yours. Take a Valium. Cheers.

[Tangles]

I put valid arguments in a discussion which you disregarded as "hysteria and anger", and now you make yourself the one accused in anger burst lol, that's messed up
I'll take my Vallium, you take your Cialis and we'll call it even hehe
Cheers your way too

[DanL]

Suggesting shutting down the commercial or FN fisheries is about as pie in the sky as you can get. Sure the allocation isnt fair nor related to the actual impact on the stocks, but that doesnt mean there isnt room for improvement in how we approach it from our end (ie recreational sportfishing).

This thread is about flossing, presumably in light of the DFO's request to use selective fishing methods in recent years. A lot of ideas being floated around here and we should encourage such dialog. Personally, I feel that whatever measures comes out of such a high profile Fraser fishery have wide reaching influence on all sportfishing, so it's well worth the effort to try to set it up right, or make course corrections as needed. Even though other industries has 100X more impact on the stocks than us, doesn't mean we should just forget about promoting ethical recreational opportunities.

No one is denying the impact of commercial fishing in stocks is huge, and that we should be pushing for better management. But lets also be realistic. The members of this forum certainly have a greater voice in representing and influencing the sportfishing interests so why not facilitate that however we can. To say it's pointless while the boondogle of commercial fishing continues on is not constructive, IMHO