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[Steelhawk]

This is the kind of steelheading in last so many years, people crowding on all the lower runs like coho fishing. Very hard for pocket water fishing in mid river these days as many fish (especially hatch) got thinned out in lower river. We need a period of high muddy water for fish to push past lower river runs. Hope for rainy days next week.

[TheLostSockeye]

This is the kind of steelheading in last so many years, people crowding on all the lower runs like coho fishing. Very hard for pocket water fishing in mid river these days as many fish (especially hatch) got thinned out in lower river. We need a period of high muddy water for fish to push past lower river runs. Hope for rainy days next week.

I'd rather catch Wilds than hatches on most days. It is nice to retain a fish once in a while. I'm going to release around 97% of any steelhead IF I catch any this season (even hatches). Agreed on needing some rain, you can literally cross the river in most tailouts in mid - lower

[Chehalis_Steel]

We need a period of high muddy water for fish to push past lower river runs.

Or better Steelhead stocking  in at least a few more rivers than we have now. That would spread out the pressure a bit more because most of the guys you see on the Vedder are just after hatchery fish.
Doubt it will ever happen though.

 What is there like maybe a handful of rivers where you can go and have reasonable chance of catching hatchery steelhead in region 2. Compare that to well over 10 for hatchery coho.

[SilverChaser]

I really don't care if its a hatch or wild... a steelhead is a steelhead  . Even though I am entered in the Wally Hall, I probably will release majority of the hatch I get into; steelhead are just such a beautiful fish. Quick question: I see a lot of guys talking about fishing non-pressured systems... does this include creeks and such or just rivers?

[Noahs Arc]

Clipped steelhead are put in the river for you as a licensed angler to harvest.

[Dave]

Clipped steelhead are put in the river for you as a licensed angler to harvest.

True, but these hatchery fish you can kill are produced from the app 75-80 wild fish (hatchery mortalities included in this number) harvested from the basically unknown wild population.

[MetalAndFeathers]

True, but these hatchery fish you can kill are produced from the app 75-80 wild fish (hatchery mortalities included in this number) harvested from the basically unknown wild population.

Why dont they use returning hatchery fish opposed to taking wild fish make hatchery fish? They are made with 2 wild fish so I dont understand why not?

[chris gadsden]

Why dont they use returning hatchery fish opposed to taking wild fish make hatchery fish? They are made with 2 wild fish so I dont understand why not?

Attempting to protect the gene pool as much as possible.

[BigFisher]

Keep the fish as wild as possible

[Dave]

Why dont they use returning hatchery fish opposed to taking wild fish make hatchery fish? They are made with 2 wild fish so I dont understand why not?

There are people who frequent this site far more qualified than I to answer that question, and I hope they do.

In the meantime; my take on this issue is breeding hatchery fish begins to further weaken the unknown gene pool of C-V fish; the more generations of hatchery fish returning and the subsequent breeding programs results in poorer survivals of fish that do spawn, increased competition with wild fish, and over a few generations, like what has happened in Washington, Oregon and California, truly wild fish are basically extirpated.  Try Googling this subject.

Many believe there are no real wild steelhead left in the C-V, and, from a purely scientific genetic standpoint that is probably correct.  However, (and this why I and a few others continue to monitor these fish) those we observe every spring in the upper river are as wild as anyone in 2016 could expect from a fish … wary and spooky as hell, males fighting for females and the territory that entails, erect dorsal and adipose fins, and basically just magnificent.

I believe the present steelhead hatchery program on the C-V needs major changes and have been advocating for that for years, but, imo, changing protocols to breed and release hatchery fish would be the beginning of the end for this system. Considering how these steelhead and this river has stood up to the pressures of urban encroachment and the huge increase in angling pressure shows just how well wild steelhead can do when they have a degree of protection, in this case a closed to angling upper river, which results in an unknown wild spawning population.

[Tylsie]

This argument goes on and on, but at the end of the day when does a fish become wild or stop being wild? As was said, in all likely hood there is probably very few steelhead in the C/V that do not have a hatchery fish somewhere in there ancestry. Yes, it has been proven that hatchery fish do not behave the same as wild fish, it has also been proven that within 2 generations the fish are for all intents and purposes is a completely wild fish. For all the arguments up here, one should do some reading about Washington/Oregon. They have had major lawsuits and have been forced to hatcheries have been forced to euthanize hundreds of thousands of juvenile fish because they aren't "wild" enough. To me, simply, if you want to fish for steelhead support the hatcheries. Most studies show that they are highly susceptible to delayed mortality.

But back to the original purpose of this thread. With the rains expected to come on monday I went steelheading on the C/V for the first time in years. It was great to see that river again, even if nothing worked. The water was low though, really low but looked perfect. The kind of day on dreams of steelheading. Best of luck to every one.

[Dave]

This argument goes on and on, but at the end of the day when does a fish become wild or stop being wild? As was said, in all likely hood there is probably very few steelhead in the C/V that do not have a hatchery fish somewhere in there ancestry. Yes, it has been proven that hatchery fish do not behave the same as wild fish, it has also been proven that within 2 generations the fish are for all intents and purposes is a completely wild fish. For all the arguments up here, one should do some reading about Washington/Oregon. They have had major lawsuits and have been forced to hatcheries have been forced to euthanize hundreds of thousands of juvenile fish because they aren't "wild" enough. To me, simply, if you want to fish for steelhead support the hatcheries. Most studies show that they are highly susceptible to delayed mortality.

Perhaps I don't understand your position ... are you saying you support a hatchery program that might have possible negative impacts to wild stocks?

[Tylsie]

Perhaps I don't understand your position ... are you saying you support a hatchery program that might have possible negative impacts to wild stocks?

I am saying that it is complicated, but that hatcheries don't have a long-term negative affect in stocks. There can be no doubt that fish raised in a hatchery are different, but those differences are quickly bred out if the salmon are allowed to spawn naturally. However, if you remove hatchery fish from systems as heavily fished as the C/V the shear amount of deaths from Catch and Release, no matter how well practiced, would result in the collapse of the stock eventually.

[wizard]

If you guys keep hatcheries, check their stomachs.  I found plastic pieces in belly of a fish last year and so did others.  Interesting to see if we see more of that...

Also lets see what happens to wild stocks on an urban river like Chilliwack without hatcheries given oceans are warming at alarming rate, spawning beds are getting mined out, droughts, forests up river are getting clear cut, clay silting over spawning beds, people dumping garbage not to mention asbestos, urban sprawl, fish farms, invasives like bass in sumas, loss of riparian, more and more people using and abusing the resource etc... all those factors and more are getting worse year by year.  Something to keep in mind..

[clarkii]

I am saying that it is complicated, but that hatcheries don't have a long-term negative affect in stocks. There can be no doubt that fish raised in a hatchery are different, but those differences are quickly bred out if the salmon are allowed to spawn naturally. However, if you remove hatchery fish from systems as heavily fished as the C/V the shear amount of deaths from Catch and Release, no matter how well practiced, would result in the collapse of the stock eventually.

Bold statement your making, ignoring all the other potential impacts on stock survival (ocean conditions, smolt mortality, bycatch mortality, etc... and saying the only way for the cheddar to have a run ino he future is hatchery supplementation.