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[Knnn]

http://nativefishsociety.org/index.php/conservation/keep-em-wet-campaign-photo-contest/

[hue-nut]

how many dead steels you see washed up on the shores of the Vedder? or any other river for that matter. Some people like to take pics, some don't. It really comes down to that. I would put money on the survival of the most poorly handled fish. If you are actually landing numbers of steelhead per year pics become less important but I still take pics of any memorable fish. Nets are for Googans. If you get on the river regular you can't be bothered with a net.

[redtide]

Hrenya.....fish handling will b different for different situations on the river. Your a young fisherman....you enjoy fishing and you will catch many fish in the coming years...but try to understand what we are saying.

Fishing for a species like ie. wild coho..bull trout..wild steelhead(all fish you cannot retain on the vedder) need the utmost care to release harmlessly back to the river. No net and not removed out of the water. Keep long nosed pliers to help remove hooks that are deep.

Fishing for retainables like hatchery steelhead..hatchery coho..hatchery trout which you want to retain and kill it does not matter how long it is out of the water or if net is used.Take as many pics as you like. If you plan on releasing hatchery fish then treat them as if they are wild fish and take care with their release. As other members have stated dry rocks...no water....or grabbing by body for pics can result in harm. Even nets can result in minor slime/scale loss which can lead to infection unless it is half in water. Im not saying we are "perfect" on releasing fish because we are not. But their survival rate is much better with as little handling as possible.

[96XJ]

I prefer the long line release method , which apparently I'm quite good at

[Humpy]

how many dead steels you see washed up on the shores of the Vedder? or any other river for that matter. Some people like to take pics, some don't. It really comes down to that. I would put money on the survival of the most poorly handled fish. If you are actually landing numbers of steelhead per year pics become less important but I still take pics of any memorable fish. Nets are for Googans. If you get on the river regular you can't be bothered with a net.

Seriously?
There is a time and place for nets.

[Every Day]

Nets are for Googans. If you get on the river regular you can't be bothered with a net.

And to that, I say you're a idiot.

I carry a net all the time with me now, after many years of not carrying one. I bush crash and hike 20+ km/day with it in canyonous river on the island, through the thickest, most brutal bush you can imagine. Never has it bothered me in the last 2 years tucked away in my wading belt - not once. I have fished 50 days since Jan 1 - would you consider that "getting out regularly on the river?"

It makes landing fish easier for us and the fish. They don't go on that one last run that tires them out considerably. That's why you'll never see me being able to post a photo of a fish laying beside my rod without a hand on it - they aren't EXHAUSTED. Every fish I land, as soon as I loosen my grip (and I need to keep a tight grip), it gives me a shower. That's the way it should be. If you can make a fish sit still, and need to revive it, you're doing something terribly wrong imo. Plus, a net allows you to keep a fish in adequate water while getting a camera ready, rather than on its side in shallow water smashing itself while you fumble around.

To each their own I guess. I have a lot of guys scowl and leave when I walk in he head of a run with a spinning rod too cause "it's for googans/beaks." You'll never guess how many fish I quickly pick up behind them. I guess a spinning rod and a net makes me a double googan 

Anyway...

1) Yes you can take a fish out of the water. My rule is 10 seconds max (when I've timed my lifts on the go pro, they are often in the range of 2-5 seconds). If there is no water pouring off the fish/your hands, it's been out too long. If you want to take more than 1 picture, make sure you let them take a decent breather before your next quick lift.

2) Wet bare hands are fine on fish. Glove are not. Knotless nets or rubber nets are best if you want to use one.

3) I try to never land fish in less than knee deep water. Obviously you can't ALWAYS do this, but it's a good practice. I would say you should never bring a fish onto shore or over shore unless you are killing it.

4) If you're talking about 3 seconds for having fish out of the water, then I would say both yes and no. As I said, I do it as quickly as possible. Typically this is 2-5 seconds. Anything over 10 is too long. Most studies focus on 30 second or more time intervals when looking at mortality, and even 30 seconds causes significant damage. Any air exposure is bad - limit it.

[typhoon]

And to that, I say you're a idiot.

I carry a net all the time with me now, after many years of not carrying one. I bush crash and hike 20+ km/day with it in canyonous river on the island, through the thickest, most brutal bush you can imagine. Never has it bothered me in the last 2 years tucked away in my wading belt - not once. I have fished 50 days since Jan 1 - would you consider that "getting out regularly on the river?"

It makes landing fish easier for us and the fish. They don't go on that one last run that tires them out considerably. That's why you'll never see me being able to post a photo of a fish laying beside my rod without a hand on it - they aren't EXHAUSTED. Every fish I land, as soon as I loosen my grip (and I need to keep a tight grip), it gives me a shower. That's the way it should be. If you can make a fish sit still, and need to revive it, you're doing something terribly wrong imo. Plus, a net allows you to keep a fish in adequate water while getting a camera ready, rather than on its side in shallow water smashing itself while you fumble around.

To each their own I guess. I have a lot of guys scowl and leave when I walk in he head of a run with a spinning rod too cause "it's for googans/beaks." You'll never guess how many fish I quickly pick up behind them. I guess a spinning rod and a net makes me a double googan 

Anyway...

1) Yes you can take a fish out of the water. My rule is 10 seconds max (when I've timed my lifts on the go pro, they are often in the range of 2-5 seconds). If there is no water pouring off the fish/your hands, it's been out too long. If you want to take more than 1 picture, make sure you let them take a decent breather before your next quick lift.

2) Wet bare hands are fine on fish. Glove are not. Knotless nets or rubber nets are best if you want to use one.

3) I try to never land fish in less than knee deep water. Obviously you can't ALWAYS do this, but it's a good practice. I would say you should never bring a fish onto shore or over shore unless you are killing it.

4) If you're talking about 3 seconds for having fish out of the water, then I would say both yes and no. As I said, I do it as quickly as possible. Typically this is 2-5 seconds. Anything over 10 is too long. Most studies focus on 30 second or more time intervals when looking at mortality, and even 30 seconds causes significant damage. Any air exposure is bad - limit it.

Nice to see someone with a clue. Thanks, ED.
If you want zero harm to the fish, stay home. 3 seconds out of the water causes zero additional harm.

[RalphH]

People make too big a deal about this.

Many of the handling errors people go ballistic over have only minimal impact on survival rates. Hooking location and time out of the water are the most significant factors.

Multiple studies over 5 decades show fish will survive as long as:

you use fishing methods that minimize the fish being deeply hooked. Still fishing bait is not a recommended method if fish have to be released. If you must still fish use circle hooks.

you handle fish gently, don't squeeze the fish

you minimize the time fish are removed from the water to seconds

you don't allow the fish to flop on land

you don't pull fish up onto dry land if intending to release it

you don't attempt to remove hooks set in the throat or gills - cut the leader

Nets are fine. Nets can reduce both direct handling and the amount of time it takes to release a fish. Shallow 'catch and release' nets  are better as they allow easy access to the fish to remove the hook. Nets can make it easier to handle smaller fish and reduce handling. In many situations nets are essential.

There was nothing wrong with your photo of that bull trout in the net. It is a far better way to take a photo than the typical hoist and hug method some people prefer for hero shots. Shame on people who won't believe you caught a fish if no photo is provided.

Criticizing for that sort of picture amounts to bullying.

[hue-nut]

And to that, I say you're a idiot.

I carry a net all the time with me now, after many years of not carrying one. I bush crash and hike 20+ km/day with it in canyonous river on the island, through the thickest, most brutal bush you can imagine. Never has it bothered me in the last 2 years tucked away in my wading belt - not once. I have fished 50 days since Jan 1 - would you consider that "getting out regularly on the river?"

It makes landing fish easier for us and the fish. They don't go on that one last run that tires them out considerably. That's why you'll never see me being able to post a photo of a fish laying beside my rod without a hand on it - they aren't EXHAUSTED. Every fish I land, as soon as I loosen my grip (and I need to keep a tight grip), it gives me a shower. That's the way it should be. If you can make a fish sit still, and need to revive it, you're doing something terribly wrong imo. Plus, a net allows you to keep a fish in adequate water while getting a camera ready, rather than on its side in shallow water smashing itself while you fumble around.

To each their own I guess. I have a lot of guys scowl and leave when I walk in he head of a run with a spinning rod too cause "it's for googans/beaks." You'll never guess how many fish I quickly pick up behind them. I guess a spinning rod and a net makes me a double googan 

Anyway...

1) Yes you can take a fish out of the water. My rule is 10 seconds max (when I've timed my lifts on the go pro, they are often in the range of 2-5 seconds). If there is no water pouring off the fish/your hands, it's been out too long. If you want to take more than 1 picture, make sure you let them take a decent breather before your next quick lift.

2) Wet bare hands are fine on fish. Glove are not. Knotless nets or rubber nets are best if you want to use one.

3) I try to never land fish in less than knee deep water. Obviously you can't ALWAYS do this, but it's a good practice. I would say you should never bring a fish onto shore or over shore unless you are killing it.

4) If you're talking about 3 seconds for having fish out of the water, then I would say both yes and no. As I said, I do it as quickly as possible. Typically this is 2-5 seconds. Anything over 10 is too long. Most studies focus on 30 second or more time intervals when looking at mortality, and even 30 seconds causes significant damage. Any air exposure is bad - limit it.

hey ED, you don't have to make a case for what a hardcore dedicated angler you are: 50 days since January, brutal brush, canyon hikes 20+ km, picking up many fish behind others, ect. I think most know that about you already as you have mentioned these things frequently over the years. I believe it. That's great that you can do all of that with a net in tow. The fact is, most river rats think "googan" when they see someone Steelheading with a net, maybe they think differently when you pick up many fish behind them.

[Rodney]

I carry a catch and release landing net most of the time when fishing the Vedder. Who cares about what others think?

[Every Day]

I carry a catch and release landing net most of the time when fishing the Vedder. Who cares about what others think?

Newer anglers will often care about what other/more experienced anglers think.

The fact that many people frown upon a net during steelhead season will probably lead many new anglers to leave a net at home. This is a bad thing imo. As I already stated - nets make fights shorter (exhaust the fish less), and allow an angler to safely cradle a fish in the water without having to really touch it while getting the camera ready, etc. There is no chance of it bashing itself to death on rocks, or being in too shallow of water high and dry.

The vedder is the easiest place ever to carry a net. There is no bush, and half the time you can bounce hole to hole via car. There is practically no reason to not carry one - other than apparently looking like an idiot I guess.

[losos]

You're trying to tell me, every salmon released dies within 3 hours?

You've never caught salmon with broken off hooks in their throats?

What about a steelhead in the upper chilliwack. I've seen fish up there with multiple wounds in their mouths from being hooked repeatedly.

I only convey what the article has said . Apparently during the fight there is some substance released (due to stress)into blood system that prevents salmon from recovery and it dies within 3 hours. That was a scientific find not mine so arguing with me at this point is matterless.

[Noahs Arc]

You're talking about lactic acid?
Yes the longer you play the fish the more lactic acid builds up which can kill the fish.
I'm not trying to start an argument with you maybe it came across that way when I read back. However the fact that I've caught fish with old hooks in them in fresh and salt kind of debunks that at least somewhat.
Can you provide a link to this study I must have missed it on here.

[whereismyfloat]

Everything I've read on the subject suggests that the biggest factor on fish mortality is exhaustion. Take an exhausted fish and combine that with extended periods of time out of the water and the mortality rates spike.

If a fish hasn't been overplayed, a two or three second lift for a quickly timed pic is something that I've always been comfortable with. If the fish is stressed from a long battle or water temps are high, get the pic next time or at a minimum, keep that stressed fish wet.

A Queen's University study shows the following survival rates:

1) exercised trout (simulating being caught) survival rate was 88%
2) exercised trout with 30 seconds or air exposure 62%
3) exercised trout with 60 seconds of air exposure 28%

Certainly, prolonged periods of time out of the water have an enormous impact on mortality rates. Especially on highly exhausted fish. It's kind of like doing the 800m run and then having someone plug your nose and mouth. But a second or two to snap a pic on a fish that hasn't been exhausted...? Just fine in my book.

http://www.tu.org/sites/default/files/Handling_Stress_Summary.pdf



 

[RalphH]

[quote author=losos link=topic=39610.msg374400#msg374400 date=1459615109
 
I only convey what the article has said . Apparently during the fight there is some substance released (due to stress)into blood system that prevents salmon from recovery and it dies within 3 hours. That was a scientific find not mine so arguing with me at this point is matterless.
[/quote]

That was a very old study and was done using the commercial troll industry as the model. There are literally hundreds of studies done over 40 to 50 years all over the globe. Pacific Salmon in saltwater generally have lower survival rates but they don't all die - it's more like 10 to 20% provide they are not seriously injured when hooked

Everything I've read on the subject suggests that the biggest factor on fish mortality is exhaustion. Take an exhausted fish and combine that with extended periods of time out of the water and the mortality rates spike.

No. That study shows that if the trout ability to breath is removed for prolonged period mortality rises quickly. It's reasonably assumed that the fish can't breath when not in water. There is a significant change at around 30 seconds of air exposure.

If you read the specific study in  your link- they recommend fish be held out of water for no more than 20 seconds