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[dnibbles]

It was changed to 2 per day as the fall Chinook run has huge surpluses make their way back to the hatchery. Taxpayers pay for the production of these fish, there is no natural spawning in the river, so limits were increased to allow anyone who happens to have a thing for whites to keep an extra.

It's not expected it will have much of an impact overall on harvest. Chehalis summers were also opened up to 2/day as there are big numbers that escape into the canyon and aren't needed for spawning (it's a transplanted stock).

[Fish or cut bait.]

Any UNKEPT fish feed the ecosystem when they die.
That is one of the reasons some systems are stocked with them.
Others are fed (and or supplemented) with bags of fertilizer (NO, not the kind you get at home depot) that is hiked in to strategic spots by volunteers.

[TheLostSockeye]

It was changed to 2 per day as the fall Chinook run has huge surpluses make their way back to the hatchery. Taxpayers pay for the production of these fish, there is no natural spawning in the river, so limits were increased to allow anyone who happens to have a thing for whites to keep an extra.

It's not expected it will have much of an impact overall on harvest. Chehalis summers were also opened up to 2/day as there are big numbers that escape into the canyon and aren't needed for spawning (it's a transplanted stock).

I've seen the big whites spawning in lots of sections of the Vedder/Chilliwack system. They are spawning naturally in there.

[dnibbles]

Most (more than half most years) of the uncaught Chinook in the Vedder end up in totes at the hatchery. But yes, some attempt to spawn and then die in the river.

As this stock is transplanted from the Harrison River, they aren't able to successfully recruit when they spawn in the Chilliwack (save for maybe a few that spawn in Sweltzer Creek). This stock evolved to spawn very late in the Harrison, as the large, stable lake-regulated flow provided the ATUs needed to get them up and out of the gravel in time to hit the Strait when the groceries are there. Spawning in the mainstream Harrison = a safe reproductive strategy. Spawning in the mainstem Chilliwack = a not so safe reproductive strategy, cold water and big winter flows.

Marking of hatchery fish shows that ~98% of the fish that return are from the hatchery, not from natural spawners. It's a put and take stock.

[Dave]

I've seen the big whites spawning in lots of sections of the Vedder/Chilliwack system. They are spawning naturally in there.

True, they do spawn, but as dnibbles said, there is virtually no recruitment from these fish, except for the possibility of Swelzter Creek spawners.  They are originally from the Harrison River and typically rear for up 90 days in freshwater.  This works very well on the H where the river is far more productive, warmer, and has a superb short term rearing area, Harrison Bay.
The mid Chilliwack to lower Vedder, where most of these fall white Chinooks spawn, is a very poor rearing area for this stock ... too cold and not enough food to keep them alive till migration. 

Edit.  nibbs beat me to it!

[Dave]

Good to see you back nibs

[canso]

True, they do spawn, but as dnibbles said, there is virtually no recruitment from these fish, except for the possibility of Swelzter Creek spawners.  They are originally from the Harrison River and typically rear for up 90 days in freshwater.  This works very well on the H where the river is far more productive, warmer, and has a superb short term rearing area, Harrison Bay.
The mid Chilliwack to lower Vedder, where most of these fall white Chinooks spawn, is a very poor rearing area for this stock ... too cold and not enough food to keep them alive till migration. 

Edit.  nibbs beat me to it!

Nibbs and Dave
Good info,  thanks for posting

[dnibbles]

Good to see you back nibs

I've been off here for a year and a half Dave, and yet I see you and Steve are still going strong on the fish farming stuff! Like I never left!

[Robert_G]

Am I the only one who has seen Red Springs in Chillliwack Lake in August?....and yes I do know the difference between Springs and Sockeye.
I'm positive these Red Springs must have some limited success in spawning

[Dave]

Am I the only one who has seen Red Springs in Chillliwack Lake in August?....and yes I do know the difference between Springs and Sockeye.
I'm positive these Red Springs must have some limited success in spawning

Extremely limited success. They are transplanted from upper Fraser tributary stocks and are not well adapted to the water temperatures in the Chilliwack River as they spawn when the water temperature is still rising, meaning they accumulate ATU's too quickly. The eggs hatch and fry emerge from the gravel in late winter when food is scarce.  As these fish spend a year in the river before smolting, getting an early start on food is critical for their survival.  The probably extinct indigenous stock that historically spawned in the upper Chilliwack did so app one month later than the transplanted stock.

[CohoJake]

Extremely limited success. They are transplanted from upper Fraser tributary stocks and are not well adapted to the water temperatures in the Chilliwack River as they spawn when the water temperature is still rising, meaning they accumulate ATU's too quickly. The eggs hatch and fry emerge from the gravel in late winter when food is scarce.  As these fish spend a year in the river before smolting, getting an early start on food is critical for their survival.  The probably extinct indigenous stock that historically spawned in the upper Chilliwack did so app one month later than the transplanted stock.

Might these be the indigenous stock he is seeing spawn in the lake?  Or are/were the native stock a different color when spawning?

[Dave]

Might these be the indigenous stock he is seeing spawn in the lake?  Or are/were the native stock a different color when spawning?

Possibly but unlikely as Robert_ G said he saw them in August; the indigenous stock spawned at the end of September.

[CohoJake]

Possibly but unlikely as Robert_ G said he saw them in August; the indigenous stock spawned at the end of September.

If they are similar to the native spring chinook on the south fork of the Nooksack, they may hand around "staging" for quite a while - like all summer, before they actually get down to spawning.  That has been why the Nooksack run continues to struggle - they return  to the river in late spring and early summer and are in the river when the water drops and temps really heat up, making them very vulnerable to anglers and general harassment from inner tubers and other people on the river.  I think I read in other threads that the native chilliwack chinook return starting in early spring, and it wasn't unheard of to encounter them while steelheading.  Does anyone know how long the native stock would rear in the lake or river before their outmigration?

[Dave]

Pure speculation on my part but I would think the indigenous chinooks would have had a similar life history as most red fleshed chinook stocks, that is 1-2 years in the river before smolting. You can bet on one thing, there will be no data, other than anecdotal, to verify much about these fish. Most people don't even know they existed.
I fished them in the late 60's and up until the mid 70's ... they were never abundant but perseverance would get you into a few every year. Catching was dependant on the freshet, as back then the C-V actually did get one, and because of the high water, landing these super charged fish was difficult.  The largest I saw was a fish I estimated to be 35 lbs, hooked in the Boulder Hole.  You can guess the result
We started fishing for them in June, early July and although I and a few buddies caught a few in August, we pretty much considered it done at that time.
Did they go into Chilliwack Lake, stage until sexually mature, then drop back and spawn?  Who knows ... The staging in lakes seems to be a water temperature related strategy (like Cultus and Harrison sockeye); the upper Chilliwack is always cold so I can't see why these indigenous fish would do that ...
They were magnificent fish and I hope a few are still around, and I wish DFO back in the day had spent a bit more time and effort in enhancing that run, rather than fish entirely unsuited for the C-V.  My $.02

[dnibbles]

There are occasionally still a few of those indigenous ones around, the hatchery last got their hands on a pair about 8 years ago. DNA from them indicates they are closely related to Nooksack River Chinook, not surprising given the likely connection at high water back in the Sumas Lake days. I've got a photo of one in spawning colours kicking around somewhere, they are a different looking fish than the transplanted mutts.

I'd be amazed if these things are able to hold on for another decade, given that there are two transplanted Chinook stocks in the river competing with them and likely introgressing with them. Which brings me back to the original topic here, which is why it would be a good thing if people would bonk more of the hatchery enhanced Chinook in this system!