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[Dave]

Like I said nibbs, glad you're back as you make this site better

[TheLostSockeye]

through September you can go to the hope slough (NO FISHING FOR SALMON) and see red springs spawning everywhere. I counted around 20 in one small section of gravel a couple years ago.

[Dave]

Actually I believe they're whites, transplanted from the Chilliwack or Inch Creek Hatchery.  Over to you nibbs ...

[CohoJake]

There are occasionally still a few of those indigenous ones around, the hatchery last got their hands on a pair about 8 years ago. DNA from them indicates they are closely related to Nooksack River Chinook, not surprising given the likely connection at high water back in the Sumas Lake days. I've got a photo of one in spawning colours kicking around somewhere, they are a different looking fish than the transplanted mutts.

I'd be amazed if these things are able to hold on for another decade, given that there are two transplanted Chinook stocks in the river competing with them and likely introgressing with them. Which brings me back to the original topic here, which is why it would be a good thing if people would bonk more of the hatchery enhanced Chinook in this system!

The Nooksack actually has two genetically distinct summer runs, one in the south fork, and one in the middle and north forks.  Work is underway with hatchery enhancement to save both runs, but the south fork run at one point numbered just a handful of fish.  A recent federal study concluded that the south fork chinook are likely to be victim of climate change, since summers like the one we had last year will quickly eliminate the run completely.  I wonder if parties could cooperate enough to try to salvage this run in the chilliwack by mixing with the native stock there, since the upper chilliwack never lacks cold water.

[bkk]

Actually I believe they're whites, transplanted from the Chilliwack or Inch Creek Hatchery.  Over to you nibbs ...

Could be wrong Dave but I'm pretty sure these are transplanted Maria Slough red chinook. I think Matt Foy was behind this project and Inch Creek did the fish culture.

[Dave]

Could be wrong Dave but I'm pretty sure these are transplanted Maria Slough red chinook. I think Matt Foy was behind this project and Inch Creek did the fish culture.

Yeah, I believe you're correct- my mistake.  Least I got the Inch Creek part ...

[Robert_G]

The Hope Slough Chinook are 100% reds..

[buck]

Native Chilliwack red chinook are all but extinct. Hatchery staff have tried for several years to obtain brood stock to no avail. The last time we floated to try and locate adults we counted less than 10 fish.
These were scattered over a 15 km section in the upper river which is darn near impossible to seine.
Gill nets have been used with limited success.

Next best idea would be to transplant NIcola river chinook into the Chilliwack in place of the current Slim creek stock. Size of fish would be smaller but run timing would be closer to that of indigenous stock.

[spoiler]

I fished for those native Chilliwack River Chinooks back in the early 1970's.
They were magnificent fish! The bulk of them were 15 to 25 pounds, very chrome and extremely strong fighters making them very hard to land!
As Dave and Buck mentioned they were very hard to find even back in those days.
It's really sad that they couldn't be enhanced by the hatchery, it would have made a fantastic summer fishery.
The other thing I noticed with that run was very few jacks.
My fishing partners and I had a favorite phrase when one of us hooked one of the fish over 20 pounds: "you got it but you don't got it!"
because even though you hooked it, odds were it would be lost!

[Dave]

So true spoiler! Gawd, they were strong My personal best (landed) was a fish of about 15 lbs; largest I saw landed was 24 lbs by the late John Mair, and I believe Buck landed one about 23 lbs ... he might want to tell that story as I recall the battle was epic.
I remember chucking a Croc out in the Long Run and watching a fish of about 25lbs follow it in but not taking.  In that run, at the water level of the day, I would have had a good chance of landing it, oh well.
I do remember catching 2 jacks but they were the only ones I recall ever seeing.

Do you remember the char that were with these chinooks?  silver bright fish of 3-6 lbs, red fleshed, delicious, and very plentiful.  Ah, the good old days

[TheLostSockeye]

I love hearing stories from the good old days 

so why do all of the rivers down south have fall run red chinooks and not us?
 One of my buddies told me that all of the fall run chinooks are reds and most of them are huge 20-40lbers.

[dnibbles]

Could be wrong Dave but I'm pretty sure these are transplanted Maria Slough red chinook. I think Matt Foy was behind this project and Inch Creek did the fish culture.

Bkk is correct, Maria Slough transplants. The enhancement stopped a few years back, so any fish in there now would be naturally spawned fish. The hatchery is trying to monitor returns to see if this transplant takes hold, if you've got info on where aggregations of fish have been reserved can you PM me?

There are quite a few fall red runs on Vancouver Island, it's just the Lower Mainland ones that are exclusively whites. That's because they're all from just one stock (Harrison) which has been transplanted into several rivers (Cap, Chilliwack, Alouette, Coquitlam). Although outside of the Fraser there may be some fall reds nearby elsewhere.......

[RalphH]

This has been a great thread - thanks all.

I have a couple comments -questions

White springs - though I have been been 'up that way' my understanding is many of the larger glacial streams on the mainland south cost such as the Squamish, Toba, the Bute Inlet rivers and perhaps futher are predominantly whites.  I have read Rivers Inlet gets a run of both whites and reds with the reds primarily spawning below Owikeno Lake. Anyone know if this is so?

The first big returns of whites to the V-C were generally acknowledged to negatively effect the coho fishing - they pushed the coho out of formerly prime holding water - coho preferred not to hold near springs and generally moved upstream quickly. Springs were primarily introduced to supplement the saltwater fishing in the Straight - not to provide a terminal river fishery - and in some ways they aren't that great for that (primarily they lose table quality rapidly). If the don't reproduce why not just let them disappear and put the river back into a more natural state?

[Dave]

Springs were primarily introduced to supplement the saltwater fishing in the Straight - not to provide a terminal river fishery - and in some ways they aren't that great for that (primarily they lose table quality rapidly). If the don't reproduce why not just let them disappear and put the river back into a more natural state?

I know it's hard to believe but a lot of people like catching, and even eating these fish.  Besides, what else will the noobs put in their black plastic garbage bags, lol!
Seriously, the carcasses do provide some nutrient valu to the system, and they do a great job of cleaning the gravel in Sweltzer Creek, potentially increasing chum egg survivals.

[Steelhawk]

Whites are so easy to catch so most people targeting them will have some meat to take home. Without the whites, those guys who have a hard time catching a coho may be tempted to poach a wild coho if they have nothing to take home. I will say keep the whites. Ya, they surely nourish the river with their massive size when they die. LOL.