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[typhoon]

So the solution to no fish is more fishing? Something doesn't smell right.

[Apennock]

So the solution to no fish is more fishing? Something doesn't smell right.

The solution to no fish is to protest the ineffective methods that are being used to try and conserve them. 

[typhoon]

The solution to no fish is to protest the ineffective methods that are being used to try and conserve them.

Nonsense - this is about the smallest child crying because they can't have the last popsicle.
There are no more popsicles. Time to find another line of work.

[Apennock]

First of all, it's not just sour grapes for one Canadian (or group thereof) to expect equal access to resources as another.  Also, part of the issue here is not just regulation of recreational fishing it's the indifference shown toward it.   If the opening is to be delayed it's unacceptable that no one has been told so in any certain terms.   

Whether or not fishing is the solution you can't ignore that there is a problem when you have populations dropping the way we've seen.  The fact is that banning sport fishing does not make a big enough difference to actually affect the populations.  Recreational fisherman are being scapegoated to give the illusion of action because of political impedance a to limiting commercial fishing opportunities (which would actually make a difference in the fish populations).

[dobrolub]

I thought I'd post an up–to-date graph for Albion July Chinook catch as compared to other years. The graph reflects data up to July 26.

I hope the graph will address the 'no more popsicles' argument. I'd be curious to know when Fraser opened in 2011, 2012 and 2013, as we have already surpassed the returns for those years.

[Ambassador]

It bothers me. Even if I dont even want to fish for them at this time. Its not about that. Its about having your right to fish when other groups are being allowed. Why are sport fishermen not allowed when we dont even make a small dent in the total numbers of fish being retained? I could understand this IF sport fishermen made a significant impact on the fishery but they dont.

I agree (albeit without knowing the exact ratio of commercial vs sport-fished Springs caught) - one can reasonably assume the commercial fishery would be responsible for pulling a much larger percentage of catchable fish from local waters vs the sportfishing community.

I will add that most who protest will never understand the complexities of issues, that the protest is a thinly veiled effort to protect business interests

Clarki - I'll admit I'm not fully informed of the complexities of this issue - can I ask who you are referring to? As you can tell from above - I like to assume - and in this instance assume you are speaking of businesses like fishing guides, tackle shops, etc?

I totally agree with Clarki
I`ve been fishing for almost 3 years now , and every year is getting worse and worse .

What is getting worse and worse? Are you speaking of access to places and fisheries that you are allowed to go fish?
I realize there are plenty of different fisheries from Pikeminnow to Sturgeon around here - but Springs are a trophy that many anglers dream of getting on the end of their line at least once in their lives. I have yet to land my first Spring - but have all the gear and have put in multiple days in different fisheries hunting for my first one. I'm not a huge fan of the idea that the commercial boats can come fill Jimmy Pattison's freezers and pockets while the rest of us are standing at the sidelines waiting for an opportunity that may never come. 
I'm sure fishing for pikeminnows is fun - but...

If the goal is conservation, what purpose does it serve to impose the most harsh restrictions where they are least effective?  Stop all sport fishing and the effect on the salmon population will be minimal so this approach is counter productive to actual conservation efforts.  In addition, consider the economic effects of one fish from a sport fisherman; how much do you do you spend and pump into the economy to catch that one fish compared to how much a commercial fisherman spends PER FISH.

Agreed. I have a lot more interest in the health and conservation of our waterbodies/waterways since I got into fishing.
I shudder to think how much the cost per fish I catch is - and I'm sure would be cheaper to go buy big chrome slabs from Whole Foods - but fishing has become so much more that just catching to me now. Now it is more about the journey and the solitude I can find - with the odd fish on my line adding adrenaline to fuel the fire.

[Blood_Orange]

I will add that most who protest will never understand the complexities of issues [...] and the attached news release loses credibility with its' huffing and puffing of multiple demands and claiming that our rights as Canadian citizens are being denied.

Sums it up for me. Just because you aren't getting what you want doesn't mean it's necessarily unfair. Are the regulations equal for all groups? No. Are they fair? I think that DFO tries to make them fair, with varying amounts of success. Thing is, you don't get to pick and choose which rules you abide by. Fishing illegally to protest a regulation you disagree with is not going to make anybody look good

[dobrolub]

The decisions need to be transparent and based on the numbers. Conservation actions also need to apply uniformly to all groups. If there is shortage of salmon, all groups should sacrifices, FN included. There should be no discrimination either way.

Saying that there are complexities we don't understand involved isn't a proper way to move forward. If there are additional facts – lay them out. The gist of the issue, is that a decision to keep river closed to recreational fishing would be unfair. We can go on and on how little of impact the recs have but the base of it – all should be treated equal.

When was the idea of being equal given up on?

[RalphH]

Given the references to commercial catch vs sport catch best I know there have been no targeted commercial fisheries on Fraser Chinook in quite a period of years. Does anyone have different information?

Best I know there's been little or no troll fishery in the Straight or Juan DeFuca for chinook or coho for many years either.

[clarki]

but the base of it – all should be treated equal.

When was the idea of being equal given up on?

Equal or fair?

I don't get free post secondary education or income/sales tax breaks (Humorous side note...my Japanese buddy bought me a coke, after a day of fishing, at the Seabird Island gas station and the attendant hit the "First Nations discount" button on the till when he went to pay. )

I am not equal.  Equality is over rated.       

[typhoon]

I'm okay with the argument that early notice of delayed openings should be available. I agree it would be hard to run a business without that kind of information. It's not like the decision will change between last week and next week. Flow is down, temperatures are up, test sets are weak.

Transparency is nice to have, but it isn't a right.
Equal doesn't exist when it comes to access to fish. You can make the superficial argument that we should all be equal, but that simply is not true according to the law of the land. Don't like it? Lobby your MP to change it.

None of this warrants a protest fishery.

One possible (likely?) outcome is that they all get arrested, spend a lot of money on lawyers, waste a lot of taxpayer money on the court process, then have the crown drop the charges. This will cause the protesters to declare victory then do it all over again next year.

Congrats, you have managed to share the misery. Feel better?

[dobrolub]

What? Lobby your MP to change it? Should I also believe in Santa now?

[Birkenhead]

Equal or fair?

I don't get free post secondary education or income/sales tax breaks (Humorous side note...my Japanese buddy bought me a coke, after a day of fishing, at the Seabird Island gas station and the attendant hit the "First Nations discount" button on the till when he went to pay. )

I am not equal.  Equality is over rated.     

I think you need to educate yourself before making such uneducated statements.

To start with I am FN and I did not get free post secondary education at all and like millions of others non FN, I paid my own ride through post secondary. Ask my daughter or niece who are both still struggling to pay student loans if they also got free post secondary education. Yes there are grants through their FN band and scholarships available to qualifying students but it is certainly no free ride. If I wanted to go back to university, I would not qualify at all, so no free ride for me again.

As for income tax, I pay every 2 weeks just like any other Canadian does. The only time a FN person does not pay tax is when their job is on an actual reserve. Note that there are very few exceptions to this and is plainly spelled out in the CRA tax regulations.

Sales tax - Believe me, I pay my allotment of sales taxes just like you do. They only time I don't is when purchasing on a reserve - which for me is rare as although I live in the LM, traveling to the closest reserve is usually not worth it. And don't think for a moment that everything is tax free. Last year I purchased a new boat and motor (and paid taxes) had I purchased only a boat and not a motor and the boat was delivered to a reserve, I still would have had to pay taxes on that boat because there was no motor in the purchase. Don't believe me, call Cascade Marine in Chilliwack as they go through this on a regular basis.

For fresh water fishing, I don't pay for a freshwater licence and that is my right as decreed by Canadian Law. However I still have to (and willingly do) follow all BC fishing regulations just like every other non FN. This year alone, I have been checked 3x by CO's when fishing up in the interior. The second time, the CO was impressed with my knowledge of regulations for not only the area I was in but also another area that I had fish in my possession from In lieu of of not paying for a licence, over the years I have donated to Ducks Unlimited, BC Wildlife Federation, Nature Trust of BC to name a few. Even if I did have to pay for a licence, I would still donate to these organizations.

As for salt water fishing. Every year I pony up the money for a salt water licence and salmon tag just like thousands of other non FN do. There are rather strict regulations for FN to NOT require a licence and with those regs, I don't qualify and do not mind having to pay for a licence. Again. I follow all regs and consider myself a very ethical sportsman. In fact, last year, I stopped fishing with one of my buddies out on the salt as he does not always like to follow regs and ethics. And he is not FN...I'll leave it at that.

[clarki]

My apologies, Birkenhead. I did not mean to imply that it was a "free ride" for all FN. That was not my intent at all. Thanks for clarifying; you know far better than I.

Rather my point was with some who bemoan the lack of equality. Yes, in some cases there is not equality... but that's the way it should be. There should be some inequality between the rights and/or priviledges afforded to FN vs non-FN. 

I can see how my earlier comments could be miscontrued. I trust I haven't made it worse.

       

[Birkenhead]

My apologies, Birkenhead. I did not mean to imply that it was a "free ride" for all FN. That was not my intent at all. Thanks for clarifying; you know far better than I.

Rather my point was with some who bemoan the lack of equality. Yes, in some cases there is not equality... but that's the way it should be. There should be some inequality between the rights and/or priviledges afforded to FN vs non-FN. 

I can see how my earlier comments could be miscontrued. I trust I haven't made it worse.

Apology accepted. Unfortunately there is a lot of misguided myths and uneducated "facts" about FN that need to be corrected so that non FN understand that a FN person's life is never a free ride.

As for the protest fishery, I have no fish in the fight, so to speak. However I don't see the point of holding a protest fishery to catch the very same fish that people are trying to protect. There is no logic in that.

Also what happens if the DFO and CO's decide to fine and penalize the protesting fishermen to make an example out of them? Are these fisherman cognizant and accepting of the fact they could lose their fishing licence and possibly end up with a criminal record for the rest of their lives over a rather petty - but still illegal action?

Explain that when you apply for a job which requires a security clearance that you cannot get due to your criminal record. Or what happens when you decide to take your family on vacation somewhere such as the USA and you get denied by their border security because of your criminal record? Explain that to your wife and kids that your long planned trip to Disneyland is now canceled as you were denied entry.

The reason I mention the above, I know someone who partook in a protest (non fishery) back in the mid 1990's and this is what happened to him. In my view, it is a very steep price that I would not want to pay.

As for any legal action that organizations such as the Fraser River SportFishing Alliance wishes to pursue. I hope they have very deep pockets and a strong resolve to see it through. Mounting and commencing legal action and lobbying takes years and a boatload of money. Especially since cases such as this in all probability, require Federal Parliamentary action and may very well end up in the Supreme Court of Canada.