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[blueback]

As I mentioned years ago on this site; DFO is terrified to confront aboriginal actions on fishing because when challenged in court on regulatory actions, the feds lose; then, there could be a free for all on salmon, conducted on behalf of some individuals without defined treaty rights and DFO then has no legal control. As many seem to fail to perceive, is that aboriginal title (for the most part, with a few exceptions) is not yet defined in BC, and as such, is dealt with on a nation-to-nation basis. I.E. they don't have to obey the laws of Canada because legally they have not signed on to be part of Canada (treaties). 

[redtide]

Just think.....once the native food ceremonial fishery destroys the endangered sockeye run....they can start hammering the chum and roe fishery to the ground as well.

[skaha]

Just think.....once the native food ceremonial fishery destroys the endangered sockeye run....they can start hammering the chum and roe fishery to the ground as well.

--I'm getting Fed up (no pun intended) with all these threads on salmon deteriorating into bashing of First Nations.
--It is clearly not in the interest of FN to destroy salmon stocks. The presence of salmon is integral to their culture and supports land claims by showing traditional areas of harvest. 

[Wiseguy]

Sad that I witnessed the complete collapse of freshwater salmon fishing during my fishing lifetime. Maybe it will recover, but I think not.

You and me both. What a sad state of affairs.

[RalphH]

--I'm getting Fed up (no pun intended) with all these threads on salmon deteriorating into bashing of First Nations.

+1...Add all the other crap they waste so much energy over (ie the anti BB debate) & sport fishers wonder why they have such little political influence & credibility outside their own bitch circles.

[TNAngler]

--I'm getting Fed up (no pun intended) with all these threads on salmon deteriorating into bashing of First Nations.
--It is clearly not in the interest of FN to destroy salmon stocks. The presence of salmon is integral to their culture and supports land claims by showing traditional areas of harvest.

While I understand to some extent, I think in this case it is fully understandable.  People are unable to fish for chinook because the FN held the sockeye hostage.  That is the sole reason.  Despite DFO caving and closing the recreational fishery to save the sockeye, there are still reports of fishing by FN nets.  Couple bad eggs?  Possibly.  But like I have posted before, if they are bad eggs, then they should be dealt with by the FN themselves.  If not, then they are complacent and rightfully should be seen as supporting the action.  You can't rightfully claim they care about the conservation when first they hold the threatened species hostage to get a closure on a different species that all reports were showing very little impact to the threatened species and second, continue to fish when conservation is required.

I see it similar to Islamic terrorists.  If the terrorists attends a mosque and they are well aware he is stockpiling weapons and plans something, is everyone that knew  those facts supporting a terrorist if they don't try and stop them?  I believe so.  Heck, this is more like not only did my friend plan on going on a shooting spree that he had told me about, but now there are news reports of a person matching my friend's description going on a shooting spree, carrying out the plan my friend had planned.  I didn't do anything to try and stop him and won't even tell the authorities who he is.  Do I support his actions?  No matter what I say, my actions show that I do.  Do FN support poaching and not care about saving the sockeye?  No matter what they say, their actions show that they do.

[RalphH]

While I understand to some extent, I think in this case it is fully understandable.  People are unable to fish for chinook because the FN held the sockeye hostage.  [You think] That is the sole reason.

While there is some truth that FN have blocked the chinook fishery it has at least as much to do with Anglers who won't follow DFO direction to fish selectively. That would put some sockeye at risk. Anglers who don't  resist going into cross eyed hysterics about the FN fishery don't help either. This group of people only seem capable of knowing with absolute certainty who the enemies are - they have little trouble making many.

[TNAngler]

While there is some truth that FN have blocked the chinook fishery it has at least as much to do with Anglers who won't follow DFO direction to fish selectively. That would put some sockeye at risk. Anglers who don't  resist going into cross eyed hysterics about the FN fishery don't help either. This group of people only seem capable of knowing with absolute certainty who the enemies are - they have little trouble making many.

At least as much?  All I have heard is there are virtually no sockeye even jumping, very few chinook to catch, and VERY FEW people even fishing.  I've heard nothing about them closing it because people weren't following the suggestion of fishing selectively.  Do you have sources for that?

What seems more likely?  That they would close it because there were a couple hundred (or maybe a thousand or two sockeye tops) that might be caught and released with a lower expected spawn rate or that a group was threatening to take thousands in nets with a 0 percent expected spawn rate for those?  Might lack of fishing selectively have played a part?  Sure.  An equal or a greater part?  Come on.

The hate doesn't help but trying to justify this action or trying to say it wasn't the primary cause of the closer does nothing but piss more people off.  I hope you and everyone can just admit it was greed driving the FN decision and conservation was not on the mind of the people that decided this was a good idea.

I do find it funny that you think anglers should avoid going into cross eyed hysterics on something like this though.  Many on here are fishing selectively.  Many weren't even fishing because there weren't fish to be caught.  Another group then decides to offset the fairly small and possibly no impact on the sockeye by killing thousands unless the people that are fishing selectively get shut down and people aren't supposed to be really pissed off over that?  It wouldn't matter if the FN threat was 10% of DFO's decision.  Even if it played absolutely no part.  The fact it was even threatened should piss people off because of the principle behind it.

If the FN wanted to be part of the solution, the response should have been more along the lines of "When we aren't fishing we will help monitor those fishing to help report people that are not fishing selectively to the DFO so they don't affect the sockeye."  That is constructive and helpful.  No, this was a greedy move that should turn anybody's stomach.

[dobrolub]

Well said, TNA.

[armytruck]

Fantastic Blair  . i sent a simular one as well yesterday

[RalphH]

At least as much?  All I have heard is there are virtually no sockeye even jumping, very few chinook to catch, and VERY FEW people even fishing.  I've heard nothing about them closing it because people weren't following the suggestion of fishing selectively.  Do you have sources for that?

Your post is nonsense.  BB'ers outnumber bar fishers by a substantial margin. The need to selectively fish was made clear at the time opening was put in place. The courts have already ruled that as some fish will die in a fishery where release of some or all sport fish is required it is an allocation and DFO cannot open a sports salmon fishery but deny aboriginal fishing rights.

Anyone thought of exercising their right to go fishing somewhere else?

With luck the closure will be lifted in a couple of weeks for a week to 10 days before the interior closure is put in place (funny no one launches in paroxysms of rage over that one).  Chinook fishing will be far better by then. Until then chill out.

[skaha]

Fantastic Blair  . i sent a simular one as well yesterday

--Hope you CC'd these to your MP as well.

[Steelhawk]

DFO cannot open a sports salmon fishery but deny aboriginal fishing rights.

Denying aboriginal fishing rights on what? They already got 112,000 of those precious sockeye in this low run cycle. What rights have they been denied? We are talking about two different species of salmon. DFO's mandate is conservation, not political nor racial preference. The Chinook is not having conservation concern. Sockeye is. The natives want to continue to net a threatened species and DFO has every right to stop them without using the biased and statistically unproven reason that those targeting Chinook can do any damage to that stock more than one net set in the river, whether by FN or by test fishery. DFO is stopping the sporties, the guides, the tackle shops and other businesses who benefit from the Chinook fishery with minimal impact on the sockeye stock just to get the natives off the water because this group threaten them with a reason which is totally not based on any factor of realistic conservation impact. DFO is being held hostage by a group of people who have over-extended their rights after they have already harvested 112,000 sockeye. Why do you still think FN is justified in this selfish and unfair action on their part? And where did most of those 112,000 sockeye go when you see all those sockeye heads ang gut/roe all over a city road? While FN has their rights, they and DFO have to respect that the rest of Canada has their rights too, and that is the rights to fish a species which is not threatened. DFO has no right to stop fishermen who have bought their licenses to fish if the conservation concern is not an issue and the objection is not scientifically and mathematically supported by facts on the river.

[acjuve]

Well done! It is about time we fight back.

[TNAngler]

Your post is nonsense.  BB'ers outnumber bar fishers by a substantial margin. The need to selectively fish was made clear at the time opening was put in place. The courts have already ruled that as some fish will die in a fishery where release of some or all sport fish is required it is an allocation and DFO cannot open a sports salmon fishery but deny aboriginal fishing rights.

Anyone thought of exercising their right to go fishing somewhere else?

With luck the closure will be lifted in a couple of weeks for a week to 10 days before the interior closure is put in place (funny no one launches in paroxysms of rage over that one).  Chinook fishing will be far better by then. Until then chill out.

By a substantial margin?  When?  This year?  What do you consider a substantial margin?  The couple reports I have seen involve people going to typical BB hotspots to find nobody, or one or two boats.  In fact, the number of vehicles at the launch were almost non-existent.  Yeah, I'm sure that is having a HUGE effect on the sockeye.  The number of people fishing, even if every one of them was bottom bouncing wasn't going to have near the effect on the sockeye as the nets would have had.  Again, we are talking about a decrease in survival up to spawn versus a 0% spawn rate.  It is sad you can't admit that and can't admit that it was greed with a clear lack of concern for the fishing run that would prompt the FN's threat.  The fact you can't understand why people would be upset about it, and then just being told to go fish elsewhere, wow.

The need to selectively fish was a suggestion, only.  It wasn't a requirement.

Let's see how this opening a sports fishery without allowing FN fishing rights stack up by using the catch reported.  Chinooks reported as harvested to date, 3,500.  Sockeye reported as harvested to date, 50,748 lower river, 23,459 upper river.  That also ignores all those unreported numbers that we all know happen.  Hmm, that would appear to have allowed FN fishing rights.  You ignore the fact that there were chinook openings even when the sockeye numbers were down.  It is only after the threatened continual fishing for sockeye did the entire river get shut down.  FN shot themselves in the foot.  They could still probably be fishing for chinook using wider mesh nets but they decided to go nuclear and get the whole thing shut down.  I suppose now you will say they did that because they knew the DFO would shut it down and they wanted to try and protect the sockeye, right?  It was the same issue I had with the protest fishery.  You don't protect a fish run by killing the thing you are trying to protect.