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[Tylsie]

All rivers with hatchery steelhead that doesn't mention 1 steelhead a day or no steelhead retention, like stave or allouette rivers

Thank you. I was honestly unaware that hatchery steelhead are released into the stave and allouette rivers. Don't mean to derail this thread again, but think OP's question was answered. What hatchery are they from and how are the brood stock captured?
 

[RalphH]

All rivers with hatchery steelhead that doesn't mention 1 steelhead a day or no steelhead retention, like stave or allouette rivers

In Region 6 it's only 1 hatchery steelhead. In Region 5 all steelhead have to be released.

[RalphH]

I am fairly familiar with the regs but apparently I missed something. Or perhaps I have been reading the regs wrong all these years and you can keep 2 SH from the same river in the same day in all of region 1 and 2 as an earlier post could easily be interpreted.

the regulations have:

Provincial regulations that apply across the entire Province.

Regional regulations that are noted at the beginning of each Regional Section

Regulations for specific waters  that are listed in the tables for each region. You'll find Regional Daily Quotas at the beginning .

For waters not listed in the tables Provincial and Regional regulations apply.

To find these consult the table of contents on page 3.

Here is another tip -you can download the Provincial Regulations or sections of it as a pdf and load it on your smart phone so you consult them anytime when on the water.

[turbine]

The pdf's also include the in season changes and are highlighted in red.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/

[Tylsie]

Yes, I understand that all water bodies not mentioned in the synopsis fall to regional regulations. That being said, I know that most rivers in the LML have historically contained a steelhead run. Of those, maybe 10% are hatchery enhanced. It used to be more until the crackdown/transition (whatever you want to call it) 18(?) years ago. Now there are very few hatcheries that raise steelhead and none are likely to gain permission to. There is no need to say no retention of steelhead on a river when there are no hatchery steelhead in it. 

[Fish or cut bait.]

?

[RalphH]

To return to your earlier question; for the South Alouette brood stock are obtained from that river. I'm not sure where the brood stock come for smolts released in the Stave though gofisbc.com lists the source as Vedder/chilliwack diploids

Over the years I've caught hatchery marked steelhead from rivers with no hatchery steelhead program. Steelhead will stray into other rivers. In the Fraser steelhead will move well upriver from the mouth of their natal river & then drop back and enter to spawn.

Other LM/FV rivers or streams had steelhead stocking in the past: Kanaka, The Coquitlam, Serpentine, Nicomekl, Silverhope, Coquihalla, Cogburn and Big Silver though best I know these were discontinued at least 10 years ago.

[bigblockfox]

is funding the main reason it was dropped or to protect wild fish? were these systems productive with hatchery supplements?

[Tylsie]

First, let me preface this by saying that I have only been involved in salmon enhancement for 10 years approximately. However, this is how the story has been told to me by those that were there, on both sides. It is a very complex, topic, but to put it simply money was the reason that the hatcheries can no longer raise steelhead and wild stock are the reason they will never be allowed to again.

Back in the 90s there was not much concern for wild stocks, the concern was simply more fish. Fish were freely taken from one river and dumped in another. (That is why it is still possible to catch the huge vedder/harrison whites in some of the smaller river systems in the LML). Then the salmon wars between the USA and Canada got heated as stocks started to decline. As much as governments talk about their importance they would be happy if salmon were all gone. They require large, and complex negotiations between both countries, 4 states, 2 provinces and the public. Now add to all that the funding that is required and you can just begin to see the big picture and why the government wanted out. The Federal Government tried to shutdown all of their hatcheries but the public outcry was too great so they decided to try to shut them down through a war of attrition. Another interesting subject, but I don't have time to delve into it tonight.

A dispute developed between whether steelhead should be managed by the Federal (as salmon) or provincial (as trout). Ultimately Steelhead rearing fell under the provinces jurisdiction. Yes, there is overlap and some federal hatcheries raise steelhead but that is conjunction with provincial cooperation and after much debate and negotiation. The hatcheries on the rivers (and others) that Ralph mentioned are licensed under the Federal government and had to stop. It was a dark time... Trays of fertilized eggs were pulled and destroyed. The only exception I am aware of is the Little Campbell and that was only after extensive legal procedures. Even now, any hatchery steelhead that makes it to the LC Hatchery must be marked, trucked down to the mouth and forced to run the gauntlet again.

Fast forward to today and read the Provincial Framework for Steelhead Management in BC released in April and it clearly states that it is basically impossible to open a steelhead hatchery now for fear of impacting wild stocks.

[RalphH]

Up until about 2002 I was involved in the management of a hatchery under the DFO community hatchery program. I was a salaried Provincial Employee not a volunteer

As Tylsie says money was the main reason. That was at both at the Federal and Provincial level. Funding cuts forced a shift to a wild fish policy that left hatchery enhancement focused on 'payback'; not just did the programs return fish but was there angler utilization that justified the cost of enhancement.

Personally I don't think we should ever favour enhancement at the expense of wild fish. As long as wild populations are sustainable we should be very careful that enhancement does not negatively impact wild stocks.

[rfelling]

Tylsie and RalphH wise beyond their years.
I can learn a thing or two from you gents.

[96XJ]

Tylsie and RalphH wise beyond their years.
I can learn a thing or two from you gents.

I agree, these are two people with obviously a lot of knowledge on different fisheries , it amazes me to see some people on this forum constantly argue with them or with one of them anyways   

Thanks for the history lessons gents

[Tylsie]

I agree, these are two people with obviously a lot of knowledge on different fisheries , it amazes me to see some people on this forum constantly argue with them or with one of them anyways   

Thanks for the history lessons gents

Nothing wrong with an argument unless no one learns anything. As much as it pains me to admit, after arguing til I was blue in the face I have been proven wrong once or twice.