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[eager_rookie]

Hey all, wanted to hear people's opinions on this. I was up on the Skeena last week and encountered a guy (and wife and kids) who killed a very large steelhead doe. My girlfriend and I confronted him when we saw it dead at his feet, and he first denied it was a steelhead, then told us he was going to call the cops for harassing him, then said that he would self-report to RAPP once he got into service (we were halfway between Rupert and Terrace and out of service). He packed up and left, but not before we got his plates; we called him into RAPP once we had service. Thankfully, it seems like he and his wife will face charges for this, but I'm not sure how much I can talk about it given that there will be a court case.

My question is two-fold. Im especially interested in hearing from people like Rod and others who serve as stakeholders or are involved with management.

One, what is the best way to approach these cases of clear violations when we encounter them out on the water? Should we take as many photos as possible so there's more evidence? Should we avoid confrontation as much as possible? Calling RAPP and hoping for a CO to show up in time isn't always an option, so what can we do to make their job easier?

Two, is there a way that I can get involved in pushing more aggressive legislation around fisheries violations like this? I know a lot of anglers talk about how penalties on poaching are too lenient, but is there a way that we can lobby for more punitive laws in cases like this?

[wildmanyeah]

Seems like a lot of effort for a violation that costs less to pay then a speeding ticket. I suppose you never speed.

[SPEYMAN]

wildman... it is an attitude like yours that discourages others from reporting violations. Grow up and encourage others to protect our resources. There are rules and laws for a reason, two wrongs don't make a right.

[cdjk123]

Seems like a lot of effort for a violation that costs less to pay then a speeding ticket. I suppose you never speed.

No effort is ever wasted when it comes to this. If you care about the fish, then you should care enough to go out of the way to report violations.

[wildmanyeah]

No effort is ever wasted when it comes to this. If you care about the fish, then you should care enough to go out of the way to report violations.

I never said don't report but continuing to confront someone after they tell you to piss off is never wise and definitely not worth the effort.  Take picture, take license and report it.

Speeding kills people! do you bother to report speeders? take there license plates? lobby the city to put in crosswalks or traffic lights? It seems like people's attitude these days is there is 8 billion people on earth we could probably do with a little less! 

never feel bad about reporting that was my intention!

Tho seems like you have a lot of energy so donating and helping out with habitat restoration projects go along way to! 

Just delete my posts i'm in a pissy mood.

[Apennock]

Absolutely worth confronting them about it, most do it thinking they will get away without having to explain themselves.  Often just knowing that people are watching is deterrent enough. 

I work in one of the parks and are protocol is:  educate ("I'm sure you weren't aware but..."), firm warning then punitive action (in our case, park eviction).  So my advice in these situations is to stop at step one and call a CO or other authority.  Educate them yourself but leave the bad cop routine to the people who get paid to take the cupcakes that comes with it. 

[eager_rookie]

I never said don't report but continuing to confront someone after they tell you to piss off is never wise and definitely not worth the effort.  Take picture, take license and report it.

Speeding kills people! do you bother to report speeders? take there license plates? lobby the city to put in crosswalks or traffic lights? It seems like people's attitude these days is there is 8 billion people on earth we could probably do with a little less! 

never feel bad about reporting that was my intention!

Tho seems like you have a lot of energy so donating and helping out with habitat restoration projects go along way to! 

Just delete my posts i'm in a pissy mood.

Hey man, thanks for chiming in.  I do understand that there are consequences associated with a lot of different forms of lawbreaking, but for the purposes of this discussion, I'm specifically interested in dealing with fish poaching. Once we solve that problem, maybe we can move on to speeders. I'd definitely stop speeding if speeding killed wild steelhead  .

Good advice re: getting involved with other projects to promote the health of our fish stocks. That's definitely a better use of time and energy than getting upset about poachers (but only after you've reported them, etc). I do some consulting for fisheries projects and I feel like that work makes a difference, but watching someone beat a 40 inch wild doe to death on the bank is a pretty upsetting experience and it made me wonder what I could do if I was to find myself in that situation again.

[Damien]

If there weren't 'poachers' or people that abuse/ignore the 'selective fishing' guidelines, the Fraser would be open for Pinks right now.

[losos]

First ... talk to the person.

Maybe they honestly did not identify the fish or know the regulations (No excuse)
Try to educated them through nice conversation (if they are listening)

Call the RAPP line and report.

Go home.....
______________

I know that you have passion and care.... but Enforcement is not your PROBLEM. There are proper authorities to deal with this.

One of the BIGGEST MISCONCEPTIONS out there is this: TAKE PICTURES!  Honestly, unless video or picture evidence is supplied by an Authorized CO.....  your's is basically useless in Court. 

______________

Gill & Seine Nets most likely KILLED over 100,000 Steel head this year alone.

-Test nets
-FN Fisheries
-Commercial Fleets

"Every Fish Counts"... but trust me, the Recreational Fisher is NOT causing the problems.  Not saying this guy should be able to do what ever he wants.... but previous poster made an extremely VALID comparison to SPEEDERS.  They are driving a "Dangerous Weapon" that may KILL my Wife, Family Member or Friends.  Don't see the "passion" in stopping this.

Yes we are a FISHING SITE.... so there lays your post's subsequent interest.
However, we are also not the RAPP SITE.


Just my opinion.

However the topic is about the fish and RAPP is related to fishing and not any other killing activities including Syrian war.
He had a good reason to express his concerns and be responded to with related answers.
If however one wants to debate deaths caused by i.e. alcohol there other accommodating sites.
Environment can do without humans , but no other way.
Anyway as someone raised it before even if videos aren't any proof in court they are discouraging factor in eye to eye confrontation ,because not many has idea about their validity.
Unfortunately none of us has any influence on  a case output and caring for fish is very low on government agenda unless international community will raise stink.

[skaha]

A new iPhone app makes it easy for users to take geo-referenced, time-stamped photos or videos and to report issues related to illegal use, or abuse, of natural resources.

The British Columbia Wildlife Federation’s Conservation App works both in and out of service areas using the phone’s GPS and reports are sent to a secure server and then forwarded automatically to the appropriate enforcement agency.

--I don't think you have to be a member of BCWF to download and use the app.

--It's not my intent when going fishing to seek out and check nor be outraged if someone is using a barbed hook in a stream where retention is allowed and they are not over their keep limit. Similar to the speeding issue...over the posted limit on the hyway... I can live with it...in a school zone...zero tolerance.

--As some have said if abuses are causing harm and cannot be enforced the area may be closed to all so one has to at some point make a decision on what is more important.

[DanL]

'Confronting' is not a good idea IMHO.  Sure you can point out some rule violations in case the person didnt know. ie "I think treble hooks are not allowed here" ;  "Not sure if you heard, but the limit of chum on this river is two" etc.  but dont press the issue if they are not receptive. You never know who you are dealing with and things could go badly.

One of the BIGGEST MISCONCEPTIONS out there is this: TAKE PICTURES!  Honestly, unless video or picture evidence is supplied by an Authorized CO.....  your's is basically useless in Court.

Its true that us regular people have little ability to collect proper evidence, but I had a nice chat with a fisheries officer on the Stave last year and he basically said that for dealing with specific infractions, the best thing we can do re: collecting evidence was indeed photos and video of the behaviour, people, license plates etc. They may not be admissible in court, but if it helps them identify the individuals, apparently they can and do track them down and sometimes "invite" them in for an interview and people usually crack. At least that's what he told me.

I can see where he was coming from. Calling in a report of 'three guys wearing blue snagging pinks at the Vedder Crossing' is not particularly useful other than giving them info on the 'hotspots' for violators. In terms of actually having any chance of busting specific individuals though, they need at least some verifiable details.

[Ambassador]

A new iPhone app makes it easy for users to take geo-referenced, time-stamped photos or videos and to report issues related to illegal use, or abuse, of natural resources.

While I love the idea of this app - it is in need of some admin work to remove useless or non-serious posts.

Example - the first "Violation Report - Env Pollution" that I viewed on the site was this:


For trash in the ocean - this is pretty much as good as it gets. A cardboard box with no tape or apparent labels/printing. Some tree material and staples that will biodegrade quickly. Hardly something that needs to be reported as "environmental pollution".

'Confronting' is not a good idea IMHO.  Sure you can point out some rule violations in case the person didnt know. ie "I think treble hooks are not allowed here" ;  "Not sure if you heard, but the limit of chum on this river is two" etc.  but dont press the issue if they are not receptive. You never know who you are dealing with and things could go badly.

Bang on. Look at the story of that poor dude from Burnaby. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/michael-page-vincelli-death-1.4240816

[Sinergy]

I was at the cable pools in Capilano saw a guy trying to snag the fish I warned him to stop he didn't so I snapped his rod. That's how you deal with them.

[fic]

I was at the cable pools in Capilano saw a guy trying to snag the fish I warned him to stop he didn't so I snapped his rod. That's how you deal with them.

There's got to be a better way

[Fish Assassin]

I was at the cable pools in Capilano saw a guy trying to snag the fish I warned him to stop he didn't so I snapped his rod. That's how you deal with them.

A few years ago a former member of this forum saw a guy trying to snag from the Cable Pool. He confronted him in the parking lot. Things didn't work out well for him. The snagger turned and beat the heck out of him. The snagger's father who was there with his son explained that his son was mentally retarded. Moral of the story: Be a hero at your own risk.