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[psd1179]

Simply notice there is a $1000 fine for flossing, I doubt if there would be any.

Well Said!  You "Get it".

It's nothing "PERSONAL" -> it's about the DFO's MANDATE, MANAGEMENT and POLICY IMPLEMENTATION!

-They have "Regulated" the industry in favour of the COMMERCIAL since day one.
-They literally Avoid any issues with FN. (yes there is history, treaty's etc.)  It deserves some scrutiny
-They "play the Recreational Fishermen" over and over again.

Anyone who thinks the ENTIRE RIVER SYSTEMS closure(s) are due to "some people standing out and using bouncing betties" - really needs to RETHINK this.

Are you kidding me?  So.. if this was true (Which i do not believe because it's so preposterous) then why do they not simply ENFORCE the regulations to the FEW who need it?

It's a Shame we live in a Society that now so easily "Accepts" having entire access rights removed for these type of silly excuses.

Just my opinion

[RalphH]

It would also help if fly shops and fishing stores STOP selling bottom bouncing rigs to novices and experienced anglers alike.

fly shops sell bottom bouncing rigs? What are you smoking?

DFO is the only government department to make ordinary Canadians realize that they are the 2nd or 3rd class citizens

this is both nonsense and ignorance. DFO follows constitutional requirements and government policy.

Suggestion: if you don't like the way sport fishing is administered due to National Laws - sell your tackle & take up another hobby.

[cdjk123]

fly shops sell bottom bouncing rigs? What are you smoking?

this is both nonsense and ignorance. DFO follows constitutional requirements and government policy.

Suggestion: if you don't like the way sport fishing is administered due to National Laws - sell your tackle & take up another hobby.

LOL, you know what I mean :p

[Tylsie]

The DFO is staffed by many passionate, talented, and hard-working people. Most are doing the best they can, while balancing competing demands from politicians, environmental legislation, the media, rec anglers, FN anglers, and commercial anglers.

I'm not bothered by people trashing DFO's policies but it irks me when I see posts RANTING and RaVING in CAPITAL LETTERS and bright COLOURS, insulting people who, for the most part, are doing their job to the best of their ability. Heck, some of those DFO people may even agree with some of your gripes but their hands are tied, for one reason or another. The snark is real but not constructive.

(I'm not associated with DFO in any way... it just irks me when an entire professional field, filled with people we've never met, is insulted because someone needs to have a tantrum )

Unfortunatley, in my my opinion the DFO WAS staffed by many many passionate and talented people. Men and and women who took a stand, did what they knew to be right often putting their entire careers on the line. But time has moved on... many have retired, others have been let go, and some others have been replaced by more modern personell. Now that is not to say that these people are not passionate, but if one compares the response to recent attempted cuts (purges) to the one attempted in the 1990s you there is a stark contrast.

That being said, I will give credit where it is due. The modern DFO has much more knowledge and expertise than their predecessors. But knowing what has to be done does nothing unless something is actually done. They can hide behind the constitution and Charter all they want. But the law clearly states that conservation trumps any ones rights. We must call them out on their hypocracy. Of the salmon run is strong enough for non selective net fishery it is certainly strong enough for a selective sport fishery! 

[standalone]

How difficult for DFO open fraser chinook salmon for bar fishing only,  Or make BB legal for sockeye only?

[DanL]

How difficult for DFO open fraser chinook salmon for bar fishing only,  Or make BB legal for sockeye only?

Probably not that easy as there is no definition currently in the regs of what defines 'bar fishing' nor 'bottom bouncing'.

They either dont seem to have much interest in doing so, or it's extremely hard to change the regs, otherwise they would have instituted such things long ago to have at least some granularity in managing the various fisheries, rather than "requesting" that recreational sector use "selective fishing methods" which seems nearly completely useless.

That's like removing all speed limits then requesting people keep their speed down, or risk all cars getting banned. It makes no sense.

[RalphH]

I appreciate your comments about other alternatives. 
Many people have just learned to "Live with these crazy decisions and have found other locations". I choose to call them (DFO) out on these Biased and Improper Regulatory choices.

this is just your opinion. IMO it's not informed or without bias itself.

To some extent some of the actors behind the attempt to open the river to 'bar fishing' can only blame themselves. They actually promoted and developed the sockeye floss fishery. They also resisted selective fisheries and tackle restrictions because such would be 'biased' against those who choice was to fish bait etc. So FOC/DFO decided not to enact regulations that allow one sort of tackle or method and not another.

FWIW I am quite alright with a bar fishing only reg to allow catching chinook but avoid sockeye, as long as we can see more fly angling only water.

Ever ask yourself why BC is only Province anglers have to buy a license to angle in tidal waters? It is because BC Anglers lobbied for it.

BTW I don't think chinook runs to this point have been sufficient to support any sort of fishery including a catch and release fishery. Low water and high temperatures add to the problem For the most part only the late summer run has been sufficient for some years. Neither has there been a floss fishery before early to mid August so the problems with the spring and early summer runs are likely caused by factors other than the floss fishery, though some blame that. More than likely it is environmental factors related to water levels and temperatures in their natal streams.

[chris gadsden]

Rebecca Reid

Regional Director General

DFO Pacific Region

 

Rebecca the B.C. Federation of Drift Fishers adds its voce to the many groups and individuals demanding that the Fraser River be opened to recreational chinook fishing. Considering the significant First Nations openings that have occurred, it's obvious the conservation concerns have abated which should allow an opening for our sector. Past creel census has demonstrated our impact on chinook stocks is not significant  and our selective bar fishery has zero  impact on sockeye stocks.

 

We have demonstrated patience and supported concerns for depleted sockeye stocks. The BCFDF in coordination with other groups has actively tried to work with your staff in promoting selective fishing and has suggested that spot closures be used as a last resort in areas where selective fishing is not practiced. Earlier this year we requested a demonstration fishery that would further prove the selectivity of bar fishing for chinook. Unfortunately despite our offers to fund and organize the fishery our request was declined. To say were are disappointed with the cooperation of DFO Fraser River staff would be an understatement. Considering written support from the Minister promoting working relationships between the recreational community and Fraser River staff the continual denial of our requests is most disturbing. 

 

The Fraser River  recreational salmon fishery salmon is a tremendous economic driver for the communities bordering the Fraser River. It is also a priceless heritage that must be saved for future generations. The community has shown considerable restraint in support of conservation concerns but its become extremely difficult to ask anglers to not fish while other sectors have been fishing for several weeks. We are asking that you immediately initiate the actions required to get our fishery open.

 

Thank you for your immediate consideration to this request.

 

B.C. Federation of Drift Fishers

Rod Clapton, President                 

[Steelhawk]

This just illustrates the fact that politicians only understand votes. Perhaps the various groups should organize a public protest/demonstration and invite the media to address the unfair treatment of the recreational sector by DFO and politicians. The last resort is of course civil disobedience which had been proposed in prior seasons in light of such ridiculous unfair treatment of the recreational sector. DFO and the head honchos won't do anything unless this unfair treatment becomes news worthy and a public protest will get the media's attention. Organize it and invite all fishermen to go protest it publicly. That should change some hearts for that incompetent and biased institution.

[Rieber]

Well said.

The culture and habit of fisherman flossing in the fraser systems has been a major contributor to this whole debacle we find ourselves in today. Flossing/bottom bouncing/whatever you want to call it has been an extremely popular method of fishing in the LM, and only in the last few years has the ethical nature of this style of fishing been seriously questioned.

If people keep teaching their kids "this is the only way to catch salmon", then we will continue to have this conflict between recreational fisherman and the DFO in regards to chinook and sockeye runs.

Fishing lobby groups can say that they only selective fish (ie, bar fish), but until we start to make flossing a taboo in the fishing community, nothing will change. It would also help if fly shops and fishing stores STOP selling bottom bouncing rigs to novices and experienced anglers alike.

Sure, that's it - keep telling yourself that the restriction is due to bottom bouncing. Wrong - get over it. There is no salmon left - that's why there is no open season for Recreation fishing.

Multiple reasons for the decline in salmon stocks but it's definitely not due to bottom bouncing, although it really is a convenient excuse isn't it?

I've heard that a certain, historically controversial Native band is has been quite diligent in abiding to the large mesh and Sockeye restrictions. While this Band's Elders are trying to educate the their fisherman and do their best to comply, I really have to show some support and applaud their efforts. The Elders know they have challenges with a few non-compliant fishermen but what I've heard is that this is a very small population. The Natives know the the salmon are in big trouble and so are they, without the salmon.

Yes - it's too bad we can't bar fish for jack Spring, but that's sort of a minor inconvenience in respect to the bigger problem here - isn't it? Think about all the resources needed to manage and enforce such as small target of salmon - maybe a couple hundred jack springs that might be caught by bar fishermen over a small season that we could have left for these jacks. Yes it's a shame that such economic opportunities are lost - I feel for everyone affected by this but it is what it is. There is not enough salmon coming this year.

I don't care how you try spin a justification to allow a Recreation salmon opening this year - there is not enough salmon this year. If next year's numbers and conditions don't provide us a Rec fishing opportunity, I fear it's all over. I honestly believe that it's been over for a couple years now. I'm sad that I was able to witness this collapse.

[dobrolub]

Here are some random thoughts:

So they are closing the recreational, but do they also reduce commercial quotas?

Looking at the store shelves I think half of that fish goes to waste at these prices.

I don't see sushi restaurants go belly up to fish scarcity.

[chris gadsden]

From Rod C.

Note  below that sockeye encountered in the on going chinook fisheries are now classified as: "Low abundance exploitation rate"  New terminology to suit the situation?. Considering we can fish selectively with zero exploitation rate why are we not on the water?   

From: opscentre@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 2:32:15 PM
Subject: FN0817-Salmon - Fraser River Sockeye and Pink Update - Areas 11 to 29 - August 15, 2017

    Category(s):
    ABORIGINAL - General Information,
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net,
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine,
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll,
RECREATIONAL - Salmon


    Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada

Subject: FN0817-Salmon - Fraser River Sockeye and Pink Update - Areas 11 to 29 - August 15, 2017

The Fraser River Panel met on Tuesday, August 15 to receive an update on the
migration of the Fraser sockeye and pink runs to date and review the status of
migration conditions in the Fraser River watershed.   

In-river gill net test catches have fluctuated in recent days but are still
much lower than expected.

Purse seine test catches of sockeye in Areas 12 continue to fluctuate at
moderate levels with the largest catch of the year occurring yesterday, August
14. In Area 20 catches continue to fluctuate at low levels. The purse seine
test catches in the two approach areas has resulted in a slight decrease in the
projected sockeye diversion rate through Johnstone Strait to 74% compared to
the pre-season forecast of 51%.

The most recent DNA samples taken in the marine purse seine test fisheries show
sockeye stock compositions in Area 20 of approximately 3% Early Summer, 85%
Summer and 12% Late run stocks. In Area 12, the purse seine stock composition
was 5% Early Summer, 87% Summer and 8% Late run stocks. The decrease in
proportion of Early Summer run stocks combined with the increase in the
proportion of Late run stocks is suggesting that the total return of Fraser
sockeye may have normal run timing for this cycle. The most recent in-river
stock identification samples from the Whonnock test fishery are showing stock
proportions of 6% Early Summer, 83% Summer and 11% Late run stocks.

Daily Mission hydroacoustics escapement estimates have decreased in recent days
ranging between 30,700 and 48,700. The total estimated sockeye escapement as of
August 14 is 549,100. Hell’s Gate observations have continued to increase in
recent days.

During the call today, the Fraser Panel made no additional changes to the run
size for Early Stuart, Early Summer or Summer run sockeye. At the current run
size for Early Summer and Summer run sockeye, there is no TAC available and as
such only fisheries with minimal impact on sockeye are being considered at this
time. The estimated escapement past Mission of Early Stuart, Early Summer,
Summer and Late run sockeye as of August 14 is 46,400, 100,000 and 382,600 and
20,100 fish, respectively.

On August 14, the Fraser River water discharge at Hope was 2,571 cubic metres
per second, which is approximately 26% lower than average for this date. The
water temperature of the Fraser River at Qualark Creek on August 14 increased
to 19.7° Celsius which is 1.6° Celsius higher than average for this date. The
forecast is for water temperatures to decrease to 18.9° Celsius by August 20 as
cooler air temperatures combined with precipitation is forecast in the coming
days. Due to the very low discharge levels, water temperatures are highly
influenced by air temperatures.

For pre-season planning purposes the Fraser Panel had adopted management
adjustments for Early Summer, Summer and Late run sockeye that reflect the
forecast water temperature and discharge conditions based on the May and June
information for Early Summer and Summer run sockeye, and anticipated river
entry dates for Late run fish. Due to the very poor return of Early Summer and
Summer run stocks they are now being managed based on a Low Abundance
Exploitation Rate (LAER) limit and as such there will be no modifications to
the in-season management adjustments for this group. Management adjustments are
additional fish that are set aside from identified harvest levels and allowed
to migrate upstream in an attempt to assist in achievement of identified
spawner objectives for the different run timing groups. No in-season changes to
the management adjustment are expected for Early Stuart, Early Summer, Summer
and Late run groups in 2017.

At this time, it continues to be too early to assess the return of Fraser pink
salmon. Recent test fishery catches in the marine approach areas have shown
increasing abundances of pink salmon primarily in the Johnstone Strait area.
The most recent stock identification samples analyzed for Areas 12 and 20 purse
seine test fisheries indicate Fraser origin pink salmon comprise 30% and 44%,
respectively. Based on the most recent purse seine test catches the estimated
diversion rate through Johnstone Strait for Fraser pink salmon is estimated to
be 80% compared to the historical median of 50%. Run size and timing updates
for Fraser pinks will likely begin in mid to late August.

First Nations food, social and ceremonial sockeye fisheries were restricted by
a 4 week window closure protecting Early Stuart and the earliest timed Early
Summer run stocks with limited fishing opportunities in-river to date directed
at Chinook salmon. Sockeye encountered in these fisheries are accounted for as
part of the Low Abundance Exploitation Rate.

Food, social and ceremonial fishers in marine approach areas as well as the
Fraser River are requested to check for the opening times and any restrictions
in their local area.

The next in-season meeting of the Fraser River Panel is scheduled to occur on
Friday, August 18, 2017.


FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Jennifer Nener 604-666-0789

Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0817
Sent August 15, 2017 at 14:29
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

If you would like to unsubscribe, please submit your request at: http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=manage_subscription

If you have any questions, please contact us via e-mail to: OpsCentre@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
   

[chris gadsden]

Rebecca Reid

Regional Director General

DFO Pacific Region

 

 

Dear Rebecca Reid,

 

We, the sports fishing and guiding community dependant on salmon openings are amazed, that DFO still is not willing to recognize that we are able to fish selective for Chinook salmon, without harming any other salmon species, contrary to other user groups. 

 

Fraser River Lodge employs 42 staff. Many of our livelihoods depend on this selective fishery. This year, we have already lost a good part of the typical selective salmon fishing opportunities that we have had fished for over the past decades.  I find it disturbing that DFO simply ignores the fact that our bar fishery has ZERO impact on sockeye stocks and at the same time turns an annual blind eye on other user groups.

 

DFO does not seem to care about job losses on our side. No accountability on DFO`s side, since your pay checks come from the Federal Government and your jobs seem to be safe – unlike ours and our employees.

 

We request an immediate chinook opening with selective fishing methods in order to salvage our and many other businesses in the guiding industry.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

 

Frank Staiger - Owner and Professional Guide
Fraser River Lodge

[RalphH]

...perhaps it's time to do away with guided fishing in the Lower Fraser watershed. It's not like it's a wilderness fishery. Knowledge and advice  can be had from tackle shops and other anglers on the river. Some of the guides often do not fish using ethical methods or good etiquette either.

[cammer]

ive said this before many times , DFO is not concerned in the least with sportsfishings' impact on stocks, we are just a pawn in a game of kings and queens(expendable). The issue with us is that if we ever get an opening then first nations points at us on the river and immediately sends all their fleet out as that tells them " no conservation concern" . It sucks but faced with first nations rights we're screwed , only way we will be on that river again is when the numbers can handle native onslaught  and the subsequent "salmon for sale signs" that pop up all over the fraser valley