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[spoiler]

RalphH,
I wasn't suggesting with my post that the Chinook numbers justified an opening on the Fraser!
I was just commenting that it's weird that DFO allows Chinook to be caught at the mouth of the river and it's closed for Chinook retention in the river.
if there was a concern with low numbers why don't they close the approach areas too?

[wildmanyeah]

Looks like the demonstration fishery wll happen as the river is not anticipated to be open.

http://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=200244&ID=all
"The Department is receiving questions regarding the possibility of recreational
fishery openings for chinook and/or pink salmon in the Fraser River.  At this
time management measures in place are aimed at limiting impacts on Fraser
sockeye while allowing First Nations food, social and ceremonial fisheries,
directed on other species, to occur. Recreational fisheries for salmon in the
Fraser River are not anticipated to open in advance of the upcoming Labour Day
weekend. DFO will continue to monitor the migration of sockeye through the
marine areas and the Fraser River and will consider an opening for pink salmon
when it is determined that impacts of an in-river recreational fishery would be
minimal for sockeye. As Late Run sockeye can demonstrate holding behaviour in
the lower river and off the river mouth, such an opportunity is likely not to
occur in the immediate future. Due to significantly reduced FSC harvest for
First Nations this year, with very low harvests of both sockeye and chinook to
date, DFO is not considering opening additional recreational chinook fisheries
in the river at this time to provide for priority access for First Nations FSC
fisheries.  For information on current recreational fishery opportunities for
chinook in other areas please see the Department's web-site at:
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/index-eng.html "

[spoiler]

bottom line is that the First Nations have told DFO that if they open the Fraser for rec. fishing they will start taking Sockeye!
DFO is being held hostage by First Nations due to our federal government's "hands off " approach with the First Nations!

[wildmanyeah]

bottom line is that the First Nations have told DFO that if they open the Fraser for rec. fishing they will start taking Sockeye!
DFO is being held hostage by First Nations due to our federal government's "hands off " approach with the First Nations!

You connected?

[Rieber]

bottom line is that the First Nations have told DFO that if they open the Fraser for rec. fishing they will start taking Sockeye!
DFO is being held hostage by First Nations due to our federal government's "hands off " approach with the First Nations!

If this is true then that's well played by the First Nations.

Looks to be an interesting stand-off. Looks like First Nations has had enough of the mismanagement of the resource and have decided F/N will decide what's going to happen now.

Should get interesting. Maybe a protest is being planned to protest the protest?

Like everyone else, I wish there was a simple solution. If there was a simple solution there wouldn't be this problem.

[steelheadfreak]

bottom line is that the First Nations have told DFO that if they open the Fraser for rec. fishing they will start taking Sockeye!
DFO is being held hostage by First Nations due to our federal government's "hands off " approach with the First Nations!

So true. Too add, DFO/GOV is very afraid of FNs since the 1990s and the Oka issue. Ever since then, Gov handles FNs issues with kid gloves. But lets not get off topic here............This thread could go south very fast.

[RalphH]

Oka has next to nothing to do with it.  People seem to forget we has Gustafsen Lake here in BC. That has little to do with it.

What has to do with it is the spankings the Federal Government has gotten when they forced these issues into Federal Court and made the courts decide when they could have gotten better and more flexible deals if agreements had been negotiated with the FNs.

[chris gadsden]

Thanks Rod for you well thought out posts on this very complex issue.

[chris gadsden]

http://www.theprogress.com/news/demonstration-fishery-saturday-near-chilliwack-to-demand-fraser-river-opening/

[milo]

Like everyone else, I wish there was a simple solution. If there was a simple solution there wouldn't be this problem.

Oh, but there is, Rieber, there is.

Let FNs manage all salmon fisheries. Let them do the research, conduct counts, and let them issue commercial and recreational licenses and quotas, keeping the proceedings to invest into better managing of the resources. They did it quite successfully for centuries before European conquerors arrived and messed things up.

[Rieber]

Oh, but there is, Rieber, there is.

Let FNs manage all salmon fisheries. Let them do the research, conduct counts, and let them issue commercial and recreational licenses and quotas, keeping the proceedings to invest into better managing of the resources. They did it quite successfully for centuries before European conquerors arrived and messed things up.

No way. You can't have one user group have controlling monopoly over this resource. I do believe FN need to be well represented on the Management Committee. We assume FN did a good job managing this resource before Whiite invading immagrants made the mess we're in now, but that were a lot less people and a lot more fish and a ton less civilized destruction of North America.

[CohoJake]

Oh, but there is, Rieber, there is.

Let FNs manage all salmon fisheries. Let them do the research, conduct counts, and let them issue commercial and recreational licenses and quotas, keeping the proceedings to invest into better managing of the resources. They did it quite successfully for centuries before European conquerors arrived and messed things up.

This isn't that outlandish of an idea.  The Quinalt river on Washington's coast is managed in such a way.  In order to fish, anglers must be accompanied by a tribal "guide".  The Quinalt does have one of the best steelhead harvest fisheries in Washington, but I don't know how it's salmon runs are doing.  The biggest problem with this type of system is the angling licenses are likely to be priced out of range for most anglers - it would begin to look like the systems in place in European countries where you purchase rights to fish a river from the land owner.  Also, I think it would put all non-FN guides out of business.

[Rieber]

This isn't that outlandish of an idea.  The Quinalt river on Washington's coast is managed in such a way.  In order to fish, anglers must be accompanied by a tribal "guide".  The Quinalt does have one of the best steelhead harvest fisheries in Washington, but I don't know how it's salmon runs are doing.  The biggest problem with this type of system is the angling licenses are likely to be priced out of range for most anglers - it would begin to look like the systems in place in European countries where you purchase rights to fish a river from the land owner.  Also, I think it would put all non-FN guides out of business.

Two very different water systems and user groups. The Fraser River is an Industrial and Commercial use river. FN will never be afforded the management rights of the Fraser River system. Cash is thicker than blood - Industry and Commercial opportunities to exploit natural resources will not be stopped until they simply run out. We're seeing some minor adjustments made as Resources are diminished but we will not see a real correction in out lifetime - not in the next generations lifetime.

Salmon stocks have dropped below critical mass and there just isn't enough salmon left to annually sustain, never mind overcome, the depletion. There are too many factors that would need to be corrected. I'm confident we'll see some corrections and cyclic recovery but this will likely be just natural cycles in salmon stock numbers. God, I hope I'm wrong.

Serious efforts to correct this problem won't be afforded until there is no more money to be made.

I'm sad that I've become so cynical but management efforts came too late and without enough impact.

[Wiseguy]

Count me in. Thanx Rod for the clarification.

[Tenz85]

Curious to see the results of the recorded catch for this demonstration fishery. It's baffling that he DFO hasn't implemented specific methods of fishing and times of year for those methods. Probably would have reduced some of the wild fluxuations between some of those returns that are a fraction of their spawning year return. Then again, that's more likely a factor of habitat, weather, ocean conditions, and commercial fisheries. Opening on the Labour Day weekend makes a lot of sense for the rec sector trying to enjoy one last weekend of the summer before kids go back to school.