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[banx]

Logically though even a limited sport opening could have significant benefit for that sector. Theoretically even a short opening of the Fraser with a limit of one pink would allow lots of people to go out and get some benefit from the fishery but the total harvest would be like a rounding error as far as a potential commercial take is concerned.

wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

with selective methods of course.

[danielk]

Salmon are dieng out.  Why doesn't the government invest in a few more hatcheries   Wouldn't that help ? Why not stick a couple on the Fraser river. Dump a few 100k chums pinks and socks.  It's seams everyone just wants to point fingers.  Yes we all f-ed up over fished   But now is the time to plan a head sure its costs money but if the fish stop coming home a lot of money is lost anyways sorry if I went off topic  but it's crazy fighting amongst each other over a bigger situation!  If you build them the fish will come  back.  And why can't hatcherys release a few smolts in the river reds so they can create a kinda wild fish again. 

[Steelhawk]

I think they did in 2015.  I recall there was some small pilot/test commercial opening but went poorly so that was it for the commies while the recs got a later opening. Memory's a bit vague so I'm sure someone will clarify the details if I'm wrong.

Logically though even a limited sport opening could have significant benefit for that sector. Theoretically even a short opening of the Fraser with a limit of one pink would allow lots of people to go out and get some benefit from the fishery but the total harvest would be like a rounding error as far as a potential commercial take is concerned.

X3. Opening tidal Fraser for 1 pink wouldn't do any harm to the sockeye stocks. Thousands of sockeyes and pinks die from other user groups including the test nets. These  can do harm so much more to the sockeye/pink stock. Just close down some of those darn test nets for a day and the number of sockeyes and pinks saved for brood stock will be more than anything the tidal pink fishery with lure fishing can do harm to these species in a season. DFO and its head honchos are just a bunch of stubborn idiots functioning without any regards to the recreational fishery and without true stats or science to back up their claim that allowing sporties to fish for pink, even chinook, will damage the stock survival of sockeye.

[wildmanyeah]

Hatcheries have had diminishing returns for a number of year, Ocean survival rates from 10% down to 1-2%. Seems to me they might not be doing anything if fish are starving at sea.

Arnt chum suppose to have another huge return this year see no sense in having more of thoes.

[Robert_G]

I believe you are absolutely correct. In order for the FN (species) to survive, they need their supply of Salmon.

Last time I checked, I didn't see a sign at Superstore banning the natives.

[Rieber]

Last time I checked, I didn't see a sign at Superstore banning the natives.

Why would Natives be banned in a Superstore. Cripes man - lose the hate.

FN will use what amount they need to feed their families and then they need to sell the rest to buy other foods. Are you seriously thinking FN only eat fish?

Who says native caught fish don't go to the supermarkets? I don't know the legalities of that and it doesn't matter to me if it did end up in stores as long as it was all legal and food safe.

One of the skills our local FN is that they definitely know how to fish. Why wouldn't anyone not want to see FN gt the chance to be more self sufficient? Did European invaders that "founded" Canada not already do enough the f-up these people?

It only took 150 years to virtually destroy the salmon and we're still not satisfied, we're going to keep going until the people who depend on the salmon for existence are also gone.

Help people overcome hurdles - don't put up the road blocks.

[danielk]

I thought chums were almost gone but why could you ever have to many returning more eggs mores big guys later on .ya hatcherys are producing less but is that because of funding or lack of returns.  Or both I still think fighting here won't accomplish anything turn that anger into conservation and education   Blaming everyone else for the the whole of our doing is stupid keep racist stuff out  of it  that's the problem with forums they get side tracked     Attend a meeting if you can and have a response to there comments a friendly one.  Keep the hate at home    Maybe just maybe someone will listen. The chances are about the same as the % of the returns we are not getting anymore if that makes any sense !!! We as the people have the power it just needs to be focused in a direction.

[blaydRnr]

In order for the FN (species) to survive, they need their supply of Salmon. They need to take advantage of their Treaty and be given the right to manage what they have legally negotiated and been granted. If that means selling some of their harvest to purchase other items needed for their survival then so be it.

Please tell me this was a tongue in cheek comment like satire because last I checked FN's have access to the same resources as everybody else. As far as blame, I'm not directing my point solely to demean their rights, I just found it humorous that you made them out to look like the model of true conservationists with unblemished hands.

I respect their treaty, I just don't believe they (I'm not saying all) need to hide behind a veil of deceit to conduct in activities that misconstrued what their treaty was originally designed for...but you are right, once the salmon is gone it won't matter much to whom the rights belong to...I just hope First Nations don't die out due to the lack of this food source that's so vital for their very survival...

[milo]

Last time I checked, I didn't see a sign at Superstore banning the natives.

Please tell me this was a tongue in cheek comment like satire because last I checked FN's have access to the same resources as everybody else. As far as blame, I'm not directing my point solely to demean their rights, I just found it humorous that you made them out to look like the model of true conservationists with unblemished hands.

It's not so simple. Almost without exception, FNs have a very different metabolic system from Europeans and Asians. What is food for us is often literally poison for them. Their bodies cannot handle processed foods and additives the way ours can. They get obese and sick much faster than caucasians and Asians do. It's getting bad for us, too, but that's another story.
FNs don't do well getting their essential nutrition from grocery stores. They need their wild fish, their game, their traditional way of harvesting and preparing food in order to be healthy and thrive. For centuries now, the white man has been denying them that, imposing upon them a lifestyle that does nothing but kill them off slowly.
And that is WRONG.  Wrap your mind around that concept. WRONG.
While you and I don't NEED our wild salmon for existential purposes, our native brethren do.
Educate yourself. Read this paper, it contains in a few short pages everything you should know about Natives' lifestyle, metabolism, nutrition and such. And about the horrendous impact that your ancestors have had on those good people.

1828_NCCAH_mini_diets_health_final.pdf

[Rieber]

Please tell me this was a tongue in cheek comment like satire because last I checked FN's have access to the same resources as everybody else. As far as blame, I'm not directing my point solely to demean their rights, I just found it humorous that you made them out to look like the model of true conservationists with unblemished hands.

I respect their treaty, I just don't believe they (I'm not saying all) need to hide behind a veil of deceit to conduct in activities that misconstrued what their treaty was originally designed for...but you are right, once the salmon is gone it won't matter much to whom the rights belong to...I just hope First Nations don't die out due to the lack of this food source that's so vital for their very survival...

Oh the FN know they don't have unblemished hands - I've never hear that from anyone ever. But I know what you meant, I come across as pro FN in this case.

The FN don't need to hide behind a veil of deceit but history has shown that the mob mentality and the outnumbered abuse dished out on the river is not very welcoming to the FN. While FN have been drifting, people on the bars are seen launching BBetties, stones, sticks literally anything that can be thrown at them. Why? Because we're greedy and mob bullies. Heck, I've seen it downright dangerous for FN to be out there around some of our social white fishermen. So what do some natives do - they drift at night or pull their nets very early in the mornings to avoid interactions with our ding-dong white super fishermen. Damn sickening. Now come on, there is some great interactions between FN and white fishermen and that needs to keep improving.

Elders know they have some young radical fishermen that are a little too aggressive. It's not a perfect world and as humans we can become a little unstable at times. 

Hey , I've been pissed myself at FN drifters damn near wiping me off my feet with their drift net. Stupid on me because I seen them coming but I wanted to catch that last salmon. Funny how I know better than stepping in front of a moving vehicle yet I was somehow going to (in my mind) withstand the effects of a loaded drift net in the water. One more second and that would have ended poorly for me - and it would have been my own stubborn stupidity that would have done me in.

Anyways, we're all frustrated there are no fish and no openings. Maybe the timing of the demonstration will magically create an opening for the Rec. fishermen. Oh ya - it will surely be because of a demonstration fishing mob. Keep telling yourselves that, you almost have people convinced. And that's okay if you truly believe this is the answer - I don't believe it is - that's all.

Enjoy the outing, it's looking like its going to be a beautiful day to be on the river. I'll either be at work or hopefully on a lake.

[sockeyed]

Anyways, we're all frustrated there are no fish and no openings. Maybe the timing of the demonstration will magically create an opening for the Rec. fishermen. Oh ya - it will surely be because of a demonstration fishing mob. Keep telling yourselves that, you almost have people convinced. And that's okay if you truly believe this is the answer - I don't believe it is - that's all.

Next PSC meeting is on Tuesday, so you would think the earliest opening would be on Wednesday, September 6th. 

[dobrolub]

The FN don't need to hide behind a veil of deceit but history has shown that the mob mentality and the outnumbered abuse dished out on the river is not very welcoming to the FN. While FN have been drifting, people on the bars are seen launching BBetties, stones, sticks literally anything that can be thrown at them. Why? Because we're greedy and mob bullies. Heck, I've seen it downright dangerous for FN to be out there around some of our social white fishermen. So what do some natives do - they drift at night or pull their nets very early in the mornings to avoid interactions with our ding-dong white super fishermen. Damn sickening. Now come on, there is some great interactions between FN and white fishermen and that needs to keep improving.

The only way to improve the interaction is by giving equal rights to everyone. Equal rights to healthy foods, medical care, education, etc. Dividing people into First Nations and 'the rest of us' doesn't help improving the 'interactions'. Treating everyone respectfully and equally does. BTW, as a white person I feel deeply offended by your implied suggestions.

[blaydRnr]

It's not so simple. Almost without exception, FNs have a very different metabolic system from Europeans and Asians. What is food for us is often literally poison for them. Their bodies cannot handle processed foods and additives the way ours can. They get obese and sick much faster than caucasians and Asians do. It's getting bad for us, too, but that's another story.
FNs don't do well getting their essential nutrition from grocery stores. They need their wild fish, their game, their traditional way of harvesting and preparing food in order to be healthy and thrive. For centuries now, the white man has been denying them that, imposing upon them a lifestyle that does nothing but kill them off slowly.
And that is WRONG.  Wrap your mind around that concept. WRONG.
While you and I don't NEED our wild salmon for existential purposes, our native brethren do.
Educate yourself. Read this paper, it contains in a few short pages everything you should know about Natives' lifestyle, metabolism, nutrition and such. And about the horrendous impact that your ancestors have had on those good people.

1828_NCCAH_mini_diets_health_final.pdf

I'm all for having them eat whatever is necessary to sustain their nutritional needs, I'm merely stating they don't always use their privileges for the sake of self preservation. In fact, they use these privileges to create loop holes in the regulations which any other groups or people are bound by and held accountable....for the sake of commercial venture not ceremonial or food source. It's an unfair practice that under minds a level playing field in which the only real losers are the declining salmon stock. A practice that has nothing to do with FN culture or heritage.

 

 
 

[Rieber]

Next PSC meeting is on Tuesday, so you would think the earliest opening would be on Wednesday, September 6th. 

Yes, I think we'll see a small opening mid week. Sadly the window is rapidly closing from the other end with wild Coho soon to hit the system.

Rec fishers will see a little window and then commercials will get their opening just ahead of the weekend and that will shut the supply of salmon and the Rec fisher will still have their opening but the salmon run will have been all collected downstream of the anglers. FN will continue sweeping up the remainder of the salmon that manage to trickle through.

Then the Coho enter the system and Rec and Commercial fishing is closed and the FN will still be able to selective harvest for roe.

So wipe the dust off those reels and oil up the worm gears the opening will be announced right after the long weekend.

[RalphH]

Please tell me this was a tongue in cheek comment like satire because last I checked FN's have access to the same resources as everybody else.

they do not.

Legally they have the same access. Socially & culturally they do not.