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[mikeyman]

If the nets were out of the rivers and commercial stopped for 4 years allowing all the fish to return and spawn how couldnt the runs dramatically increase? I get the environmental factors but gotta love the line from Jurrassic park. "Life, Uh, Finds a Way”. Our dependency on salmon to eat could shift to more sustainable options for a period of time to rebuild the stocks.

[RalphH]

there hasn't been a commercial fishery on chinook or coho in the inside South Coast waters or the Fraser for decades. Most rivers never. Has it made a difference? NO-O-O-O! There is no commercial fishery for steelhead but many rivers have seen those stocks crash and not come back despite decades of closure and c&r.

So if it's such a panacea - how come that hasn't worked?

PS - we can't control fisheries outside of Canadian waters can we?

[wildmanyeah]

If I’m not mistaken haven’t summer run chinook for the Fraser River improved since the the 70’s and 80’s. The only difference I can see is there has been very few commercial sockeye fisheries comepared to the years before.

Yes you are right about steelhead and all stocks crashing tho and I’m surprised you did not bring up coho as most sports fishermen like to point out that we have stopped fishing for wild coho yet their numbers are still crashing. Tho I and some others beleive that is more to do with habitats loss.

Tho it’s also hard to ignor how chum stocks have been increasing in the Fraser and relatively stable. A fish that is less commercially sought.

I beleive climate change is the main contributor to the loss of salmon we are seeing everywhere.


Do you beleive if fishing is not having an impact then we should adjust our escarpment goals and fish more?

[wildmanyeah]

PS - we can't control fisheries outside of Canadian waters can we?

The stop fishing every 3 years was brought up by a fishing group from Washington and Oregon. They wanted to do it coast wide to Alaska but noted Alaska would never be on board with such a harsh measure. However, noted that south Alaska would probably be as they have seen the same drop in salmon production.

While fishing certainly is not the number 1 contributor and also that if
We stop fishing they could also still continue to crash. It’s hard to say that all the nets everywhere and sports fishermen everywhere are not having an impact.

It’s also a pipe dream as we all know in this day of reconciliation a fishing ban would never happen.

I am a big believer in the theory of depensation and that we are past the point of no return for most stocks. That even if we stopped fishing it could take 100’s of years for them to recover and that we probably need an environmental merical for the stocks to get past the point of no return again.

[swimmingwiththefishes]

Don’t forget without eyes on the water poaching would go through the roof like on the T. One of the big side benefits of fishing.

[mikeyman]

there hasn't been a commercial fishery on chinook or coho in the inside South Coast waters or the Fraser for decades. Most rivers never. Has it made a difference? NO-O-O-O! There is no commercial fishery for steelhead but many rivers have seen those stocks crash and not come back despite decades of closure and c&r.

So if it's such a panacea - how come that hasn't worked?

PS - we can't control fisheries outside of Canadian waters can we?

Salmon migrate. Our fish get scooped up in other places than just the southern areas. There are native nets in the Fraser every year despite openings or closures. Chum roe fisheries every year. Pink openings sockeye openings. The list goes on. If the fish passed by un harrassed and more fish made it to the spawning grounds there would in turn be more fish in the future. Not freakin rocket science here.

[arimaBOATER]

Don’t forget without eyes on the water poaching would go through the roof like on the T. One of the big side benefits of fishing.

Yes there's always the poaching crowd. Every 3rd year or the 4 yr shutdown we can have citizens volunteer checking the rivers & report if they see anything.
Also Gov. enforcement has to be stepped up 24/7.
Plus very strict penalties that all agree with from the native chiefs sport fishers & commercial agree too.
Big fines / & or jail time. Plus vehicle / boat taken away.
One point made was it would possibly take 100's of years...
Well if there was a markable increase in stocks at least that shows it works so....plans are made: fish 2 yr 3rd yr shutdown. Or out of a 20 yr span it gets shut down for 4 yrs. to boast up stocks. Out of 20 yrs one can fish for 16yrs.  So....16 yrs ....then 4 yr shut down...then fish another 16 years ....4 yr shut down....so on. The math is in 32 yrs a person can fish with only a 4 yr break at the 16 yr mark. Over the long stretch what's 4 yrs when you can fish for 32 yrs.

[arimaBOATER]

If the nets were out of the rivers and commercial stopped for 4 years allowing all the fish to return and spawn how couldnt the runs dramatically increase? I get the environmental factors but gotta love the line from Jurrassic park. "Life, Uh, Finds a Way”. Our dependency on salmon to eat could shift to more sustainable options for a period of time to rebuild the stocks.

As logical as 1 plus 1 = 2.
Your honour we rest our case.
 

[RalphH]

I think it's far more important to adopt a sensible conservative management regime than close everything to maybe produce a temporary super abundance followed by super slaughter for profit. Salmon abundance cycles prove other factors influence numbers besides the # if fish that get on the redds. Streams, lakes and even the oceans have a carrying capacity. Numbers of fish influence that - more fish need more spawning gravel and more natural food but in the end both are limited.

[Damien]

Saving the fish requires a "War Time" effort.  All hands and resources on deck, in no particular order;

Shut down the fishery, completely for at least two full cycles.  Including Alaska.
Full stop on any development that impacts rivers and streams.
Plant Trees and other native plans where they should be and remove invasives to lower water freshwater temps.
Restore spawning grounds, install ladders and fishways as needed-
Including work arounds of hydro plants that have previously cut off spawning areas.
Seal cull as needed.
Immediate shut down of salmon farms on our coast.
Enhancement/Supplement with hatchery fish as needed based on the needs of the individual watersheds.
Increase fines heavily for polluters.
Poachers have their gear, boat and tow vehicle seized/auctioned.  0 tolerance.

This all starts with the streams we have in our backyards and communities and goes from there.  I'm sure i'm missing a lot.

[RalphH]

...and all we need is a magic wand & Harry Potter. 

[arimaBOATER]

Saving the fish requires a "War Time" effort.  All hands and resources on deck, in no particular order;

Shut down the fishery, completely for at least two full cycles.  Including Alaska.
Full stop on any development that impacts rivers and streams.
Plant Trees and other native plans where they should be and remove invasives to lower water freshwater temps.
Restore spawning grounds, install ladders and fishways as needed-
Including work arounds of hydro plants that have previously cut off spawning areas.
Seal cull as needed.
Immediate shut down of salmon farms on our coast.
Enhancement/Supplement with hatchery fish as needed based on the needs of the individual watersheds.
Increase fines heavily for polluters.
Poachers have their gear, boat and tow vehicle seized/auctioned.  0 tolerance.

This all starts with the streams we have in our backyards and communities and goes from there.  I'm sure i'm missing a lot.

I like that. WAR TIME effort. During WW1 & WW2 the free world got off their butts because it was a live or die or become slaves issue.
What I suggested as 1/10th of the abc's of how to fix....Damien has brought in the A-Z approach...
How true too. Can't argue against any of what he posted.
(Wonder if Rod has any ideas? Has he ever replied to any of my posts ?
Maybe I better subscribe to his You Tube ch first.
I'm safe with that. I'm 63 & was very late to even start using a computer. Had to learn even how to put one on. I ignored many emails asking "to be a friend" because of my non trust or not knowing what is safe to click on or not. Just saying. Hey just throwing that in)

[fishingwithjohn]

I think about most of my friends who dont give a $*&T bout fishing unless its something I make to eat...and they've been living that ban all their lives lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEfE8jJUWyg

[Jk47]

A-Boater I think Rod reads everything but chooses wisely what he responds to 
Once again I think Ralph is the only one who really makes any sense in this thread.  And at the end of the day you have to realize that other than a handful of WestCoast tree huggers, we (and I say “we” loosely) are the only ones who really care about the fish!

[arimaBOATER]

A-Boater I think Rod reads everything but chooses wisely what he responds to 
Once again I think Ralph is the only one who really makes any sense in this thread.  And at the end of the day you have to realize that other than a handful of WestCoast tree huggers, we (and I say “we” loosely) are the only ones who really care about the fish!

Well as ya think deeper...a four yr shutdown means selling less lures/fishing resorts/fishing guides...