Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[CohoJake]

Amen Tylsie,

As to hatchery fish production in Washington - the counting of hatchery production isn't so straightforward.  Some hatcheries are desperately working to supplement wild stocks as best they can - they don't mark these as hatchery fish because they don't want them available for harvest.  Some stocks like the South Fork of the Nooksack have been restored from the brink of extinction by using closed system hatchery production, where the fish are raised for a generation entirely in freshwater, just to increase the amount of fertilized eggs for the next generation.  The South Fork fish are still struggling due to habitat loss and the fact that the South Fork is not glacier fed, so it is much more susceptible to dangerous temperature spikes in summers like the last couple we had. 

As to seal-hiding habitat - historical records show that both the Nooksack and Skagit rivers in their unaltered states had huge log jams at their mouths - in the case of the Skagit it was more than 2 miles long.  These were destroyed to make the rivers navigable, and the channels were dredged and consolidated from a fan down to a single channel.  This lower river habitat gave the Skagit historically huge Chinook runs from the Spring to the Summer, with something like 7 separate stocks returning to various tributaries and sites in the mainstem to spawn. The state has just started to acknowledge the importance of this habitat has and begun a lower river restoration project on the Skagit.   

Yes, in the short term, ocean conditions have sucked.  They have sucked broadly and universally, so much so that Alaska systems with pristine systems have had disappointing returns as well.  But at least for now, ocean conditions are still cyclical, and I believe things will get better for years to come and we will be surprised with the returns in some years to come. 

As to Sockeye for this year, there is going to be a very strong demand for a commercial opening this year, as the first Alaska sockeye returns have been way below forecast and they have already had to cancel some openings.  Let's hope the Pacific Salmon Commission doesn't get pressured into pretending the returns are there just to have them be disastrously over-harvested by all users.

[RalphH]

Interesting & good stuff Tylsie. Just to clarify I didn't say reduced fishing opportunities I said reduced harvest. I also pointed out that Fraser Chinook stocks recovered after harvest was reduced only to decline recently.

Whatever is proposed in Washington for the future is irrelevant to the fact that hatchery production there has declined in the last 30 years or so.
******************

Also wanted to comment that habitat improvements are expensive, require many years if not decades for large scale results ad may yield little or no return if ocean survival rates stay low or decline further.

Most evidence is that ocean survival rates will not recover to what was seen in the late 70s and into the 80s but will remain several times lower than those rates as they have for some years.

[Tylsie]

Interesting & good stuff Tylsie. Just to clarify I didn't say reduced fishing opportunities I said reduced harvest. I also pointed out that Fraser Chinook stocks recovered after harvest was reduced only to decline recently.

Whatever is proposed in Washington for the future is irrelevant to the fact that hatchery production there has declined in the last 30 years or so.
******************

Also wanted to comment that habitat improvements are expensive, require many years if not decades for large scale results ad may yield little or no return if ocean survival rates stay low or decline further.

Most evidence is that ocean survival rates will not recover to what was seen in the late 70s and into the 80s but will remain several times lower than those rates as they have for some years.

Thanks Ralph, I was probably a bit... blunt... shall we say; I am just tired of all the doom and gloom. I, unfortunately, agree. We will never see the return numbers in the 70s into the 80s. But I believe we could get close, say early 90s? Those were fun years to. The only reason we won't, and you are absolutely right, is that it is expensive.

But not just in a initial monetary outlay for projects such as eel grass planting, or estuary restoration. We must consider what and who would be affected if the government got serious about salmon. Take a look at who owns a significant portion of the kelp and Spawn-on-Kelp licenses. A distinct issue, but a one that will have play a large role going forward and be difficult to resolve. Then there is the rise in the drift wood market. Even remote estuaries are being harvested now. Is the government willing to destroy an entire industry for the sake of salmon? The list goes on.

Then there is the overarching question! What are salmon worth?     

[wildmanyeah]

Also wanted to comment that habitat improvements are expensive, require many years if not decades for large scale results ad may yield little or no return if ocean survival rates stay low or decline further.

I agree it's unrealistic to expect out government to spend Billions of dollars to restore degraded habitat. It would take billions at this point,

However it's far cheaper to create regulation to protect the current habitat we do have. Human development is the biggest concern and large green ways created for streams and rivers would help. This is where our provence severely falls down and thanks to the Harper government the situation got very bad. An economic recession resulted in having the prov libs and the fed conservatives sell out our environment. 

[purple monster]

And meanwhile, nets are already popping up on the Fraser River (believe it or not)

Just below the Agassiz Rosedale bridge, on the east side, just at the end of the small island where the current is slower. They have been there before.  They were pulling up fishes earlier this morning. 

This is not the first time,  same thing last year, and I remain anxious to see if DFO will bother after being advised of the ongoing situation.  So discouraging, considering all the issues around this fishery.  I am not an expert, but would it not be the spawning spring coming up river right now.

[dobrolub]

there is not money in saving habitat. there is money in developing readily accessible land.

[avid angler]

And meanwhile, nets are already popping up on the Fraser River (believe it or not)

Just below the Agassiz Rosedale bridge, on the east side, just at the end of the small island where the current is slower. They have been there before.  They were pulling up fishes earlier this morning. 

This is not the first time,  same thing last year, and I remain anxious to see if DFO will bother after being advised of the ongoing situation.  So discouraging, considering all the issues around this fishery.  I am not an expert, but would it not be the spawning spring coming up river right now.

Lots of fn openings since the middle of april. I’ll post the links in a bit. Most of you will be very surprised at what is considered acceptable numbers of harvested Chinook. We would all be even more surprised if we knew the actual numbers killed. Not the reported numbers

[chris gadsden]

Lots of fn openings since the middle of april. I’ll post the links in a bit. Most of you will be very surprised at what is considered acceptable numbers of harvested Chinook. We would all be even more surprised if we knew the actual numbers killed. Not the reported numbers

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html

[purple monster]

I am not sure where to look and search, but maybe someone can tell me;
Has there been FN openings for retention of salmon on the non-tidal Fraser River??

And if so, well I am surprised that the DFO was not aware of this yesterday when I called in for the suspicious net activity on the river.

[Rodney]

I am not sure where to look and search, but maybe someone can tell me;
Has there been FN openings for retention of salmon on the non-tidal Fraser River??

And if so, well I am surprised that the DFO was not aware of this yesterday when I called in for the suspicious net activity on the river.

Yes.

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes_Previous.html

[avid angler]

I am not sure where to look and search, but maybe someone can tell me;
Has there been FN openings for retention of salmon on the non-tidal Fraser River??

And if so, well I am surprised that the DFO was not aware of this yesterday when I called in for the suspicious net activity on the river.

already over 20 openings....

[avid angler]

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes_Previous.html

Archived openings since feb

[RalphH]

catch reports:

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/ChinookKeptCatch.pdf

[wildmanyeah]

catch reports:

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/ChinookKeptCatch.pdf

Oh boy, you just went and stired the pot, I’m getting my popcorn for this

[RalphH]

I didn't stir anything. Anyone who thinks FN fisheries aren't already underway are living in La La land.

FN fisheries are an unavoidable fact.