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[RalphH]

 

if you can't wait to get your hands on it, feel free to PM me and provide your email addy and I'll email it to you.

done

[wildmanyeah]

Do you think they are going to close cutthroat fishing down? or do you think its going to stay open as a non retention fishery?

[RalphH]

the only thing changing is that after this year they will not stock any hatchery fish. They released fish in the Fraser and Harrison this spring which means hatchery fish should be around for a year or 2. After that wild only on a c&r basis. Hopefully there will be a broader application of a wild trout policy when it comes to them plus some attempt to determine stock status.

I am also curious what's happening on the Island vs here. I noticed fish release this year is about 1/3 of what was released the last 2 years.

[Tylsie]

Apologies for the delayed response. It appears it has been mentioned, but yes, the only 2 hatcheries currently raising cutthroat in Region 2 are the Little Campbell and the FFSBC hatchery in Abbotsford. Now, truth be told it has been years since I have targeted Cutthroat in either the LC or the Fraser, and in fact the only time I ever keep a Cutthroat is when I take my nephews fishing at some of the local lakes. The loss of the hatchery Cutthroats in rivers has direct no bearing on my fishing at all.

But I do worry. The government has learned that people will not stand for the closing of hatcheries so they have developed tactics to slowly make them irrelevant. If major actions are taken in to help wild stocks recover naturally then I will, begrudgingly, accept the loss of hatchery cutthroat these and other local local rivers. But the fact that Fishing with Rod members have provided much more information than is easily and readily available to the public at large I have my concerns.

*Not directly related to the issue at large it was brought up. All 3 hatcheries South of the Fraser (Nicomekl, Tynehead, and LC) raise and release Chinook and Coho with the the LC raising Cutthroat (For now) and Steelhead and the Nicomekl raising Chum. 
 

[RalphH]

Thanks Tylsie. The letter Clarki obtained provides the rational which mainly the 2 cutthroat programs don't meet the basic minimums the Province has established for enhancing wild stocks; wild stocks numbers are unknown, impacts of using eggs from wild fish are unknown and brood stock cannot exclusively be obtained from wild.

Good to here community hatcheries continue to rear much of their own salmon and steelhead stocks. I kind of feel the community hatchery  model is the best model of artificial enhancement.

[clarki]

Do you think they are going to close cutthroat fishing down? or do you think its going to stay open as a non retention fishery?

I highly doubt it. I fully expect the cutthroat fishery to remain open as is: retention for hy fish (while they last) and non-retention for wild.

Part of the reasoning for closing down the ct stocking program is the size of the wild populations is unknown. One way, and perhaps the most cost effective way, is to collect that data is through angler creel reports.

[Rodney]

Sorry about the delay Clarki, here is the file:

http://fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/files/2018-10-13-region-2-hatchery-cuts.pdf

[Hike_and_fish]

So no more hatchery Summers for the Chehalis ? Brutal. I really enjoyed that fishery. My friend and I floated that river a few times each Aug and Sept fishing them. We would float from the Statlu to the campsite and have a 10+ EACH steelhead day. What a shame.

They say the Chehalis hatchery is going to focus more on the winter run. I would be ok with that IF that run gets the place where it used to be or better. From my personal experience the summers run has fished better ever since the river changed and went thru reserve land.

Maybe they could make an agreement with the rez to eliminate the nets blocking the mouth that I personally see EVERY YEAR. Maybe the fishing will get better. It's hard for me to pay every year the money for Salmon and Steelhead endorsements and the opportunities get worse and worse.

[cas]

So no more hatchery Summers for the Chehalis ? Brutal. I really enjoyed that fishery. My friend and I floated that river a few times each Aug and Sept fishing them. We would float from the Statlu to the campsite and have a 10+ EACH steelhead day. What a shame.

They say the Chehalis hatchery is going to focus more on the winter run. I would be ok with that IF that run gets the place where it used to be or better. From my personal experience the summers run has fished better ever since the river changed and went thru reserve land.

Maybe they could make an agreement with the rez to eliminate the nets blocking the mouth that I personally see EVERY YEAR. Maybe the fishing will get better. It's hard for me to pay every year the money for Salmon and Steelhead endorsements and the opportunities get worse and worse.

Hike and Fish, there seems to be a lot you are missing on the topic of hatchery steelhead, especially the summer run variety on the Chehalis.

To start off, these fish have not been native to the system (Summer Steelhead). Over the years of this program, there has been a lot of cross breeding by the hatchery between "wild" AND hatchery fish taken for broodstock in the hatchery itself. When undertaking these mixes, you are surely to see some drastic genetic changes to the planted summer fish themselves. Myself and others have come across multiple "hermaphroditic" specimens over the years, which can be likely directed to the inter-breeding of hatchery fish with hatchery fish over and over and over again - this is not normal, and not very good at all with a river that once had a healthy winter population. To make things even worse, WILD summer fish are being taken from a fairly healthy stream to continuously supplement this ridiculous program - not very cool IMO, and this is something that goes unnoticed by most and through everyone's radar.

Now to add onto the topic of summer and winter fish spawning with one another - you are seeing virtually a similar issue on the Stamp/Somass system. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the planted summer fish are inter breeding with winter fish. What has happened to the Chehalis winter run? It is virtually non-existent comparative to years past. One would likely start to question the quick change in this and the negative effects a genetically mutated population had on a fairly healthy population. Not too mention, the winter program has failed in years past, but we all know that hatchery steelhead don't ever do much to boost a wild population, other than to simply create a fishery.

I think most should view this removal of the summer hatchery steelhead program as a good thing. It will be interesting to see what happens with the winter fish in the near future.

[Hike_and_fish]

Hike and Fish, there seems to be a lot you are missing on the topic of hatchery steelhead, especially the summer run variety on the Chehalis.

To start off, these fish have not been native to the system (Summer Steelhead). Over the years of this program, there has been a lot of cross breeding by the hatchery between "wild" AND hatchery fish taken for broodstock in the hatchery itself. When undertaking these mixes, you are surely to see some drastic genetic changes to the planted summer fish themselves. Myself and others have come across multiple "hermaphroditic" specimens over the years, which can be likely directed to the inter-breeding of hatchery fish with hatchery fish over and over and over again - this is not normal, and not very good at all with a river that once had a healthy winter population. To make things even worse, WILD summer fish are being taken from a fairly healthy stream to continuously supplement this ridiculous program - not very cool IMO, and this is something that goes unnoticed by most and through everyone's radar.

Now to add onto the topic of summer and winter fish spawning with one another - you are seeing virtually a similar issue on the Stamp/Somass system. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the planted summer fish are inter breeding with winter fish. What has happened to the Chehalis winter run? It is virtually non-existent comparative to years past. One would likely start to question the quick change in this and the negative effects a genetically mutated population had on a fairly healthy population. Not too mention, the winter program has failed in years past, but we all know that hatchery steelhead don't ever do much to boost a wild population, other than to simply create a fishery.

I think most should view this removal of the summer hatchery steelhead program as a good thing. It will be interesting to see what happens with the winter fish in the near future.

That is interesting thank you. I  was simply stating how much itll be missed by myself. There are not many local rivers that summers. It was always a treat.

[RalphH]

Best I know the Chehalis summer run program began in the 80s and brood stock came from the Coquihalla when the returns in that river seemed stable. Brood stock hasn't come from there in some time. I also don't believe any other wild brood has been used to maintain the program. Originally the F&W branch was looking at requests to add summer run stock to the Chilliwack which would have provided a more accessible fishery. However feedback from anglers and angling groups wanted the nature of the Chilliwack  winter/spring steelhead maintained and did not favour introduction of others stocks. I guess no one complained about  introducing these fish to the Chehalis. This wasn't the only program like this in BC. Tsitika River summer runs were transplanted to the Campbell for years and produced a very popular fishery that was terminated when the Tsitika fish declined in numbers after the watershed was logged. There were supposedly plans to get stock from another source. The Stamp/Ash system certainly has/had it's own native summer runs. These declined and then were enhanced. The fish way at Stamp Falls was once thought to have allowed more access by winter fish into summer run waters and together with enhancement there was a worry the Stamp and Ash summer runs were being genetically diluted.

Washington and Oregon introduced summer runs freely into many rivers that never had them. These were mostly 'Skamania' strain fish - an artificially created breed that was easy to propagate in the hatchery. They have also been introduced into the Great Lakes though I believe the 2 states south of us have moved away to using that particular 'breed'

[cas]

Best I know the Chehalis summer run program began in the 80s and brood stock came from the Coquihalla when the returns in that river seemed stable. Brood stock hasn't come from there in some time. I also don't believe any other wild brood has been used to maintain the program.

Coquihalla brood had recently been used to supplement the Chehalis program. In my mind, and like the past Campbell River program, it is a big "no no" when we are trying to maintain healthy populations of wild summer fish as well in in other tributaries.

It is in the best interest of the Chehalis River to have the summer run program removed entirely.

[Clarki Hunter]

Very interesting article Clarki. I have sent Sue Pollard some questions about this initiative. I sounds promising! But without millions available every year, and proper experts available it is simply icing. However, if this is the initiative that caused the Semiahmoo Fish and Game to lose their Cutthroat license than it is off to a terrible start. I hope someone from the Little Campbell Hatchery steps in because I do not want to over step, but from what I can gather their cutthroat license was just terminated. No offer of help in the restoration of wild stocks or habitat, no assessment or monitoring done by the province or FFSBC. Their license will simply not be renewed.   

If they are going to actually restore the habitat, remove the sea dams, conduct proper monitoring and assessment of stocks than the fish, and us, may have a chance. I really hope that is true.  I want to fully support the initiative nut only if it receives adequate funding and more public awareness.

As a volunteer brood stock angler for the Little Campbell Hatchery, I'm very disappointed wth the decision to end the program.  It's not so much of the why but of the how they ended it.  No consultation, no hard data, no plan of action going forward, just a letter saying it's over.  The volunteer staff at the hatchery are beyond upset.  Fraser Valley Hatchery rears and hatches the ACT for us and the cost is very little.  Our target is 20-25K released each spring.

The program has been very successful up to the last couple years where we had less anglers collecting and what would seem are correlations with an overall decline in returns to the river.  This past year we have seen a family of otters regularly running the river which may have had an impact.  That one is hard to gauge but one could extrapolate and answer. 

If you would like to lend some support to our program drop me a message and I'll add it to our meeting with the Prov Biologist.  Thanks