Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[chris gadsden]

I know Rod did a video of this a year or so again but thought I would share what I filmed yesterday. https://youtu.be/qpAgr2Lm6u4

[bkk]

Wow that brings back memories. When I started my career 39 years ago, we beach seined in almost exactly the same spot with Buck, Donaldson and other old time Vedder legends. Dave worked at the lab at Cultus so he could not hang around with the cool kids of the new SEP Program at the brand new Chilliwack Hatchery. Those were the guys who lived the river and fish stocks 24 hours per day either at work or when the were angling and always made that extra effort to help recover so many stocks. Sure wasn't much fun to be beach seining in the lower river with that howling east wind in November and December.
 What is apparent watching Chris's video is the appalling lack of chum adults. I can remember doing that same set and have 1000 adult chum making the big dash back for the main river and smashing into your legs and swimming over the downstream cork line just because there were so plentiful in some of those lower river channels. The chum run was generally very poor in those years but was pretty good in some of the preferred habitats. Sad to see what go's around comes around. It is worse on the Squamish where I live. I have seen the run crash down to remnant amounts from a run that was in the hundreds of thousands in the late 80's and 90's. Hopefully it returns to something of it's former abundance.

[Dave]

Cool kids at SEP
Seriously, what has and is happening to chum stocks just about everywhere is terrible, and a huge blow to all the animals that depend on them.
Apparently the Chilliwack is the only river with enough chums this year to remain open for retention, with enough fish to reach broodstock requirements; this statement before any reasonable assessment of returning adults.
I sure hope it turns out to be correct but I have a feeling this decision is going to make DFO managers look even worse.

[Rodney]

Re: Chum salmon management. This is from an email response by Regional Director Andrew Thomson.

"2018 Fraser chum management – Decision rules for Fraser chum are outlined in the IFMP on pages 244 to 249. In the IFMP, it specifically outlines “At run sizes below 800,000, the recreational fishery on the main stem Fraser will be closed and openings on tributaries would be limited to those where a surplus is likely to occur. Surpluses may be identified on hatchery enhanced systems”. On October 17, 2018 and October 22, 2018 the Department sent out fishery notices identifying the in season Fraser River terminal chum run size at 793,000 and 769,000 respectively. The subsequent notices on chum recreational action were a result of the run sizing estimates being lower than 800,000. With respect to terminal fishing opportunities, this is an issue we would like to explore further with the local Sport Fishing Advisory Committee over the winter. There are currently no biologically based benchmarks for the terminal rivers/streams that have chum spawning, which currently makes it a challenge to identify where a surplus may be. Stock assessment and hatchery return information was used to inform the decision on where to allow terminal fishing in 2018."

IMO the last two sentences contradict each other.

[wildmanyeah]

Re: Chum salmon management. This is from an email response by Regional Director Andrew Thomson.

"2018 Fraser chum management – Decision rules for Fraser chum are outlined in the IFMP on pages 244 to 249. In the IFMP, it specifically outlines “At run sizes below 800,000, the recreational fishery on the main stem Fraser will be closed and openings on tributaries would be limited to those where a surplus is likely to occur. Surpluses may be identified on hatchery enhanced systems”. On October 17, 2018 and October 22, 2018 the Department sent out fishery notices identifying the in season Fraser River terminal chum run size at 793,000 and 769,000 respectively. The subsequent notices on chum recreational action were a result of the run sizing estimates being lower than 800,000. With respect to terminal fishing opportunities, this is an issue we would like to explore further with the local Sport Fishing Advisory Committee over the winter. There are currently no biologically based benchmarks for the terminal rivers/streams that have chum spawning, which currently makes it a challenge to identify where a surplus may be. Stock assessment and hatchery return information was used to inform the decision on where to allow terminal fishing in 2018."

IMO the last two sentences contradict each other.

Rod I also emailed them because I was concerned.  I shared this email with Dave that his referencing a bit in his post.  Setting the bar at "brood targets" for a recreational fishery seems like a pretty low bar to me.  Expecting them to do stock assessments/enumerations for each trib on the Fraser would be "pie in the sky" as they certainly do not have to budget for that considering the Fraser river sockeye stock assessment/enumeration/DNA program takes up more then 50% of their whole coastal budget.

I think it would be good to have the recreational community way in on where that bar should be, How it should be managed. Or do we just use brood targets for a hatchery enhanced system

"Hi,

Thanks for your email.  In addition to overall low returns of Chum this year, info. from info. from FIA Stock Assessment staff are indicating that none of the terminal areas are showing any abundance of Chum;  the only exception to this is Chilliwack where it is looking like we will make brood targets.

There are variety of stock assessment programs going on  at the moment  and suggest we have a discussion around some of the issues and our IFMP objectives  at the Fall LFV-SFAC Mtg."

[chris gadsden]

Wow that brings back memories. When I started my career 39 years ago, we beach seined in almost exactly the same spot with Buck, Donaldson and other old time Vedder legends. Dave worked at the lab at Cultus so he could not hang around with the cool kids of the new SEP Program at the brand new Chilliwack Hatchery. Those were the guys who lived the river and fish stocks 24 hours per day either at work or when the were angling and always made that extra effort to help recover so many stocks. Sure wasn't much fun to be beach seining in the lower river with that howling east wind in November and December.
 What is apparent watching Chris's video is the appalling lack of chum adults. I can remember doing that same set and have 1000 adult chum making the big dash back for the main river and smashing into your legs and swimming over the downstream cork line just because there were so plentiful in some of those lower river channels. The chum run was generally very poor in those years but was pretty good in some of the preferred habitats. Sad to see what go's around comes around. It is worse on the Squamish where I live. I have seen the run crash down to remnant amounts from a run that was in the hundreds of thousands in the late 80's and 90's. Hopefully it returns to something of it's former abundance.

Glad we have the spawning channels like Peach as they seem to have a fair amount of chum salmon in them at this time. Also they were fishing well too this AM.

I am too old now to remember how strong the runs were when I started fishing the Vedder in the 70's, because my memory is not that good now, but I do remember I hooked 3 in an hour this AM. I  took one and went home as cold and wet.

I hope Dave, that is OK for me to keep another one. We certainly enjoyed the first one, it tops the Farmed Atlantic salmon that you buy. It is not good for your health either and that worries me.

Also now that we have put a stop to gravel mining on the Vedder for now that may help the runs rebuild.

[Dave]

Glad we have the spawning channels like Peach as they seem to have a fair amount of chum salmon in them at this time. Also they were fishing well too this AM.

I am too old now to remember how strong the runs were when I started fishing the Vedder in the 70's, because my memory is not that good now, but I do remember I hooked 3 in an hour this AM. I  took one and went home as cold and wet.

I hope Dave, that is OK for me to keep another one. We certainly enjoyed the first one, it tops the Farmed Atlantic salmon that you buy. It is not good for your health either and that worries me.

Also now that we have put a stop to gravel mining on the Vedder for now that may help the runs rebuild.

Fill yer boots Chris, better you eat them than some gull    It's a shame most don't know what we used to have ... and yeah, the man made side channels in the lower river are gold. 

[spoiler]

It seems to me that earlier this season there were several FN openings on the main stem Fraser targeting Chum for the roe fishery. I saw several posts on Facebook and other media sources showing big piles of dead Chum along with dead Coho, Chinook and endangered Thompson River Steelhead.
doesn't it seem peculiar that DFO allowed these fisheries when they didn't seem to have a grasp of the run size?
Just my two cents

[rjs]

It seems to me that earlier this season there were several FN openings on the main stem Fraser targeting Chum for the roe fishery. I saw several posts on Facebook and other media sources showing big piles of dead Chum along with dead Coho, Chinook and endangered Thompson River Steelhead.
doesn't it seem peculiar that DFO allowed these fisheries when they didn't seem to have a grasp of the run size?
Just my two cents

DFO have a grasp. now thats funny !!!

[avid angler]

It’s too bad the hatcheries don’t have the money to pump out way more chum in lower mainland rivers. There so important

[Dave]

It’s too bad the hatcheries don’t have the money to pump out way more chum in lower mainland rivers. There so important

Totally agree aa.  Very cheap to rear if they aren't fed (but even a few weeks of food helps survival rates), low maintenance, easy egg source, and as you say, so damn important to the Chilliwack-Vedder watershed.

[RalphH]

...yet the enhanced over abundance of chum has created the large harvest-able surplus which negatively impacts IFS.

The known model for this is sockeye enhancement on Babine Lake. Huge surpluses of sockeye created massive commercial fisheries that negatively impacted steelhead, coho...yada yada.

Without the egg fishery for chum, their commercial value is low so why enhance them as the egg fishery is bad...yada yada.

It goes 'round & 'round.

[Dave]

True enough Ralph, but I don't see an overabundance of hatchery chum anywhere. And, a disclaimer ... I support hatchery chums for the value of their carcasses to watersheds, not for an egg market for Japan or a means of FN to make money.

[avid angler]

Exactly what Dave said. I understand hatcheries exist to supplement commercial fisheries. It’s unfortunate they aren’t used more as a tool of conservation.

[YESFISH]

DO THEY still mark chum?