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[RalphH]

2. The goverment did not loose the case, The current Liberal government decided as part of their Reconciliation plan is that they would no longer fight the case in court.

exactly why did Justice Humphreys release a judgement in this case if the Federal Government decided to "no longer fight the case..."? Do you know how the legal system works? Do they teach that in high school today?

Most of you legal egg-spurts seem to have missed that it has been FOC/DFO, the Federal Government's insistence on fighting such issues in court right up to the SOC that has created this mess over the last 30+ years. Invariably they lost and entrenched FN rights and allocation priorities in the Constitution. If the Government, voters and the fishing communities had taken a path to negotiating agreements acceptable to all we wouldn't be where we are now in terms of how the resource is managed and allocated.

Now we all eat crow , not salmon.

[wildmanyeah]

exactly why did Justice Humphreys release a judgement in this case if the Federal Government decided to "no longer fight the case..."? Do you know how the legal system works? Do they teach that in high school today?

Most of you legal egg-spurts seem to have missed that it has been FOC/DFO, the Federal Government's insistence on fighting such issues in court right up to the SOC that has created this mess over the last 30+ years. Invariably they lost and entrenched FN rights and allocation priorities in the Constitution. If the Government, voters and the fishing communities had taken a path to negotiating agreements acceptable to all we wouldn't be where we are now in terms of how the resource is managed and allocated.

Now we all eat crow , not salmon.

Go back and read the media release surrounding the judgment.  Also who was the Attorney General at the time.  The judge has to render a verdict even if the crown prosecutes decide to give up.

Also Ralph one more shot at me like that and you will be going on the ignore list

[RalphH]

again you misrepresent the facts:

- the specific case falls under the management of the The Minister of Fisheries (then Dominc LeBlanc) not the AG. Judy Wilson-Reybold,  the then AG has since stood out as refusing to interfere in such cases at the cost of her job. Regardless she did not have any direct involvement in the case.

- the press release was issued after Justice Humphreys released her judgement

-  the specific judgement included rulings that were not advantageous to the Plantiffs (the Ahousat et al) such as :

Humphries J.... re-characterized the right as a right to “a small-scale, artisanal, local, multi-species fishery, to be conducted in a nine-[nautical] mile strip from shore, using small, low-cost boats with limited technology and restricted catching power and aimed at wide community participation.”

the decision to not contend an appeal at a higher court level makes some sense in that the ruling offers a workable compromise that doesn't give broad sweeping rights and allocations to the plantiffs.

 

[IronNoggin]

-  the specific judgement included rulings that were not advantageous to the Ahousat (the Plantiffs) such as :

Fine In Theory, not so much in application. 

That Band (and others) run standard 40 foot trollers in this particular fishery.
And they go pretty well wherever (and largely whenever) they want.
Many times we have witnessed DFO haling them when they have been FAR outside of their nine mile area, and without exception they refuse to answer or comply. DFO does nothing in response whatsoever.

Certainly NOT living up to the intent of the ruling by any means...

Nog

[IronNoggin]

Funding denial comes on the heels of fishing closures

The letter is misleading in that every hatchery request was denied, Saunders said.

The denial of funding comes on the heels of other announcements by the federal government this spring that have severely limited salmon fishing in the region and have dealt lethal blows to several fishing charter businesses in the region.

“When the fishing closures were announced, I can tell you that I lost $250,000 in donations for the project. People were just at rock-bottom and it was hard to generate any enthusiasm for our project. I can’t imagine what this latest announcement is going to do,” Saunders said.

https://www.sookenewsmirror.com/news/federal-government-actions-hurt-sooke-hatchery-fundraising-efforts/

[RalphH]

of course the article doesn't mention how the Charters Creek or any other hatchery met the requirements and goals of the British Columbia Salmon Restoration
and Innovation Fund

Funding focus

The British Columbia Salmon Restoration and Innovation Fund focuses on 3 areas, which are:

    innovation to encourage the development of new technologies to:
        increase productivity
        help meet conservation and sustainability objectives, including the protection and restoration of wild BC stocks, including Pacific salmon
    infrastructure to encourage capital investments in new products, processes or technologies to support the:
        advancement of sustainable fishing practices
        protection and restoration of wild BC stocks, including Pacific salmon
    science partnerships to support collaborations with academia and other research institutions to:
        improve our knowledge and understanding of impacts to wild stocks
        develop sustainable fishing practices

Funding is available for projects that meet the eligibility and assessment criteria in BC. Current priorities for the fund are:

    restoration, protection and maintenance of healthy and diverse salmon populations and their habitats
    improved performance and sustainability of the commercial and recreational fisheries
    improved sustainability of the aquaculture industry to ensure the protection and conservation of marine ecosystems and wild fish populations

https://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/initiatives/fish-fund-bc-fonds-peche-cb/index-eng.html

[IronNoggin]

Reaching there Ralphie. But then again, no surprises.   

[RalphH]

LOL

A local politician is quoted at the end of the article:

“I believe that our hatchery is the most important development in restoring the hatchery run..."

The fund requirements and goals clearly identify the protection and restoration of wild stocks including Pacific Salmon. Hatcheries don't produce wild salmon.

When the fund was announced, the capital investments identified were things that would improve wild salmon returns were , as examples removal or improvements to culverts, irrigation gates and so for forth that would increase both downstream and upstream migration success.

A far as the 1/4 million dollars of promised donations that benefactors later bailed on...shame on them!

[IronNoggin]

... The fund requirements and goals clearly identify the protection and restoration of wild stocks including Pacific Salmon. Hatcheries don't produce wild salmon.

Yep, the ol' Wild Salmon Policy. Translation: Do Nothing & Hope for the best.
How's that working out for YOU, me or anyone else (specifically including the resource here) for that matter?
Not much of a laughing matter there Ralph.

Nog

[RalphH]

Oh I wasn't laughing about the matter. The matter is not funny.

Pretty clear that since their inception about 40 years ago, hatcheries haven't reversed the decline in our salmonid populations, wild or otherwise. Many feel it's quite the opposite.

[wildmanyeah]

 

[RalphH]

I think rivers like the Smith in California, the Rogue in Oregon and to an extent the Cowichan where there is a hatchery, are examples of a primarily wild salmon policy working and working well. Hatcheries have there place but I don't think the evidence supports the practice of their use to super enhance otherwise degraded runs of wild fish or of introducing species not native to the area of even particular watersheds.

I'd also say the article indicates an ignorance of the funds goals or it's process. There is the mistaken belief than the Federal and Provincial money in the fund are somehow separate, which they are not! The Charters Creel hatchery start up didn't get funding via their application because it does not meet the objectives of the fund. They need to target funding sources that will support there operation specifically .

[wildmanyeah]

I think rivers like the Smith in California, the Rogue in Oregon and to an extent the Cowichan where there is a hatchery, are examples of a primarily wild salmon policy working and working well. Hatcheries have there place but I don't think the evidence supports the practice of their use to super enhance otherwise degraded runs of wild fish or of introducing species not native to the area of even particular watersheds.

I'd also say the article indicates an ignorance of the funds goals or it's process. There is the mistaken belief than the Federal and Provincial money in the fund are somehow separate, which they are not! The Charters Creel hatchery start up didn't get funding via their application because it does not meet the objectives of the fund. They need to target funding sources that will support there operation specifically .

This is true somewhat but there are many upper fraser chinook creeks and tributaries that seen less than 10 individual spawners some with less then 2 and some non at all. These tributaries are pretty much extipulated, So If they were to recover in our live time they would need some sort of hatchery transplants correct?

How is the no hatchery enhancement working out for steelhead populations???

[RalphH]

I think you  mean extirpated.

Hatcheries on the east coast of the Island did not stop the decline in many streams. Enhancement on some local streams like Norrish and Kanaka did very little. Many streams that were the target of hatchery enhancement historically had marginal runs in terms of fishing success in any event. Many other streams are doing so so to pretty good without hatchery enhancement. Hatchery enhancement is also expensive. The dollar value simply is not there.

[wildmanyeah]

Enhancement on some local streams like Norrish and Kanaka did very little.

coho and chum? Before the hatchery was put on Kanaka it never had a chum or coho run. Now it has a decent run for both given its size. It actually also had a decent run of pinks before they decided to kill them off.

Or steelhead? it seems there is a big difference between species on how they respond to hatchery enhancement.

How about whonnack creek?  Dispite no pressure and no hatchery enhancement its steelhead population has crashed.

I get it your a steelhead guy so all hatchery are bad, that has been the motto coming out of the steelhead camp for years. 

The upper Fraser Chinook has not seen much enhancement and most of its hatchery programs were stopped years ago, by your account it should be beaming with fish now that the hatchery are gone.  What gives?

You also did not answer my question how are we going to bring back Chinook populations to some of the upper Fraser river tributaries without hatchery support or transplants. Your solutions seems to be do nothing?