Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[avid angler]

What's the return for upper Fraser chinook production? That's what the topic was. The Chilliwack fish are already at least several generations removed from wild production & can't reproduce on their own. Last fall the V-C was all but empty of Chinook.

Your joking right..... vedder chilliwack all but empty of chinook in the fall 🙄

[IronNoggin]

Your joking right..... vedder chilliwack all but empty of chinook in the fall 🙄

LLOL! Kind of a shame when they start drinking their own Kool-Aid ain't it. 

Nog

[wildmanyeah]

Is this saying that less than 1% of the total fish caught by sporties is from vulnerable chinook stocks, or that less than 1% of vulnerable stocks get caught by sporties?  If it is the first one, that is not very reassuring as the impact on a particular vulnerable population can still be significant.  I notice a North Fork Nooksack Spring Chinook was among the fish sampled above.  Presumably South Fork Nooksack Spring Chinook are present as well, and those fish are hanging on by a thread.

This also begs the question - if the vulnerable Fraser River Chinook stocks aren't in the catch area currently, where are they now?  Are they in another area that is being fished?

Its actually less then 1% of endangered upper Fraser stocks are caught by marine sports fishermen in south coast fisheries. Yeah could of played that differently but the other side plays dirty when they say things like all salmon are endangered and on the brink of extinction if we don't close down fishing now to save the whale.  so meh 

Yes you are right we catch some endangered Puget sound fish these endangered stocks and how they are exploited is negotiated in the Pacific salmon treaty.  Some of our endangered stocks are exploited by south east Alaska including these early Fraser Chinook.  So it is a trade off. How its worded in the Pacific salmon treaty is the country of river of origin must make the cuts first.

[RalphH]

Oh please, where do you get this stuff? The main reason you don't get a lot of production out of these fish is that they were transplanted into a system that is not at all like the system they originated from. It's like comparing apples and oranges. The two are just not the same. Very little water on the Vedder looks like the rearing area on the Harrison. Might be the reason why there was never a natural fall run stock on the Vedder.
The multi generation statement is blatantly false. Capilano coho which have been cultured since the early 1970's reproduce quite well above the Capilano dam and juvenile densities in the upper river are in line with what you would see in a "wild or natural" system. The problem with the Cap is that a large majority of them die coming over the dam.

that's right they can't reproduce on their own. The hatchery on the V-C can serve no purpose in a Chinook recovery. Neither did I see any great number of chinook on the Vedder last fall. Used to be 80,000 fish return their in fall. What was the return last fall?


BTW WMY it was a great dodge. You too BKK. What is the return rate for hatchery smolt release on the Upper Fraser? Waiting for the reply

[bkk]

That's easy, it's zero because there are no hatchery smolts being released in the upper Fraser. The Chilco fish that were released in the last couple of years have not recruited to the escapement or catch as of yet.

[wildmanyeah]

that's right they can't reproduce on their own. The hatchery on the V-C can serve no purpose in a Chinook recovery. Neither did I see any great number of chinook on the Vedder last fall. Used to be 80,000 fish return their in fall. What was the return last fall?


BTW WMY it was a great dodge. You too BKK. What is the return rate for hatchery smolt release on the Upper Fraser? Waiting for the reply

Posted by Brian Klassen SFBC

"The survival was generally between 1/100% to 1/10% so that would get you between 1100 and 11000 adults before the fishery. I know because I worked at Quesnel Hatchery during this time. The problem was they were rearing upper Fraser chinook that have a yearling lifestyle and were trying to produce chinook with a coastal strategy of releasing fry of the year. It did not work so that was one of the reasons they cut those programs along with trying to reduce spending. What should have been done is that the fish all should have been reared as yearling fish and that is what you will need to do if you enhance upper Fraser chinook and this is what needs to be done ASAP if were serious about helping these stocks."

[RalphH]

Its actually less then 1% of endangered upper Fraser stocks are caught by marine sports fishermen in south coast fisheries.

this of course could be due to the fact they make up such a small % of the stock of local chinook fisheries. Sort of like in terms of total fish landed in Fraser gillnets in the fall only a very small % are IFS.

But then everyone has a spin on a statistic!

"The survival was generally between 1/100% to 1/10% so that would get you between 1100 and 11000 adults before the fishery"

Sounds like a spin... what is 1/100%?... 1100 to 11000 from how many released smolts?  Over what period of time? Thanks for posting gobble de gook.

[wildmanyeah]

this of course could be due to the fact they make up such a small % of the stock of local chinook fisheries. Sort of like in terms of total fish landed in Fraser gillnets in the fall only a very small % are IFS.

But then everyone has a spin on a statistic!

No it do to the Fact they the spend almost no part of their marine life in local waters, They go way off north to the gulf of alaska, Then come back though the JDF and right up the South Arm of the fraser.

[wildmanyeah]

this of course could be due to the fact they make up such a small % of the stock of local chinook fisheries. Sort of like in terms of total fish landed in Fraser gillnets in the fall only a very small % are IFS.

But then everyone has a spin on a statistic!

Sounds like a spin... what is 1/100%?... 1100 to 11000 from how many released smolts?  Over what period of time? Thanks for posting gobble de gook.

its a very small number ralph, but you conveniently skipped over the part where he explains why the hatcheries did not work.  That being said based on your comments Upper fraser should be doing better because they are not influenced by hatcheries but they are not and failing miserably.

[CohoJake]

No it do to the Fact they the spend almost no part of their marine life in local waters, They go way off north to the gulf of alaska, Then come back though the JDF and right up the South Arm of the fraser.

So are you saying then that all of these stocks pass through the areas with the retention restrictions on there way to the river?  And those stocks are returning now through later in the summer?  In other words, they are all subject to being intercepted in these waters on there way to the South Arm?

[RalphH]

its a very small number ralph, but you conveniently skipped over the part where he explains why the hatcheries did not work.  That being said based on your comments Upper fraser should be doing better because they are not influenced by hatcheries but they are not and failing miserably.

I have seen that before.I don't know who this guy [hatchery manager or something] is, but it's not an explanation, it's just an opinion. Again many folks don't want to distinguish fact from opinion. He could have a point and I wonder has this been tried? As I said above new ways to make hatcheries more effective need to be tried. Also have to realize that containing and feeding smolts for another year involves more cost, perhaps 2x as much. Again everyone assumes governments and the public will support spending more $ so they can enjoy catching and eating more fish

[wildmanyeah]

So are you saying then that all of these stocks pass through the areas with the retention restrictions on there way to the river?  And those stocks are returning now through later in the summer?  In other words, they are all subject to being intercepted in these waters on there way to the South Arm?

No what they have done is the opposite they have just shut down everything, they ignored there own, science for political reasons with the First Nations.  Instead of creating a closures corridor where and when these stocks migrate they just shut down everything. These stocks don’t go though area 28, that’s near the capilano or howesound but they still closed it down. They closed down the whole inside from area 17 to 12. That’s Nanaimo to port Hardy and no upper Fraser stocks of Concern migrate though tjoea areas.

[RalphH]

Other stocks shift between the JDF and Johnston Strait from year to year. Even at that some % migrate between both each year.

[wildmanyeah]

Actually Ralph most chinook stocks do not

[RalphH]

for my own interest is there any documentation of this available?

Do all Fraser stocks go out and come back via the JDFS?