Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TacoChris]

You can not guarantee that a fishing prohibition would solve anything. If it would I would be all for it. We need better science to know exactly why certain runs and species are doing poorly. Most theories still need much more investigation. Why are some runs doing well why others not. A research expedition that just recently finished had many surprises. Just google pacific ocean research into salmon it will come up. Coho were found in the ocean in surprising numbers were previously they believed they only stayed in coastal regions. Water temps for sockeye seemed fine but they seemed to be found further north. They found small numbers in pinks yet indications are this year will be big.  This only points out how much we do not know or what we think now may not be correct. Without knowledge of what the problem actually is its like fixing your car by replacing one part at a time.  Its better you try to diagnose the problem first.

[wildmanyeah]

There is without a doubt a lot of runs that would benefit from this particular ones that are beated back each year in mix stock fisheries.

[redside1]

One interesting side affect that would happen in all salmon fishing was closed for 5 years, the complete infrastructure based around sport fishing for salmon would collapse.
Name a tackle store on Vancouver Island that could survive 5 years with no salmon fishing....none would. Fuel docks, boat sellers, repair shops, lodges, marinas all would go away.
Who wants to keep a $20,000-$100,000+ boat for 5 years in the back yard waiting for it to open again?
very few if any.
There are already stores on the east coast of Vancouver Island down 60%-70% in business this year because of the closure and many are barely making sales numbers equal to last year now that its open again.

[RalphH]

I think all the angler clamoring to open springs in the Fraser proves this suggestion could never work. Any return other than near extinction would see every sector advocating an opening because "we haven't see numbers like this in years".

[Blood_Orange]

I think all the angler clamoring to open springs in the Fraser proves this suggestion could never work. Any return other than near extinction would see every sector advocating an opening because "we haven't see numbers like this in years".

The term is "shifting baseline syndrome". Here's the boring explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifting_baseline

Here's the awesome, jaw-dropping, tear-jerking explanation in the form of a podcast: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/wild-ones-live/

Click the play button at the bottom of the page to start playing the podcast episode. It's excerpts from a book called "Wild Ones", with live musical accompaniment. Put it on when you go to sleep tonight. It's sublime.

"What you need to know about Wild Ones is that it’s not a book about nature. It’s a book about how we value nature and try fit it into our modern lives. Wild Ones is about the cutesy stuffed animals, the eco-tours, and the byzantine methods of conservation that evolve when our experience with wild life goes from something natural to something designed. Human-animal interaction has become a designed experience and the story of that transition, as the title of the book suggests, is sometimes dismaying and weirdly reassuring."

[RalphH]

The term is "shifting baseline syndrome". Here's the boring explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifting_baseline

I am familiar with the term and I believe you are right that it applies to this situation. Everyone perceives the extent of the resource according to their experience with it.

[wildmanyeah]

The term is "shifting baseline syndrome". Here's the boring explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifting_baseline

Here's the awesome, jaw-dropping, tear-jerking explanation in the form of a podcast: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/wild-ones-live/

Click the play button at the bottom of the page to start playing the podcast episode. It's excerpts from a book called "Wild Ones", with live musical accompaniment. Put it on when you go to sleep tonight. It's sublime.

"What you need to know about Wild Ones is that it’s not a book about nature. It’s a book about how we value nature and try fit it into our modern lives. Wild Ones is about the cutesy stuffed animals, the eco-tours, and the byzantine methods of conservation that evolve when our experience with wild life goes from something natural to something designed. Human-animal interaction has become a designed experience and the story of that transition, as the title of the book suggests, is sometimes dismaying and weirdly reassuring."

I think this accurately sums up the chilliwack steelhead fishery...

"There is a loss of perception of change that occurs when each generation redefines what is "natural""

[VAGAbond]

That is it:

shifting baseline syndrome

.  I have been trying to craft a term for this.   When I was a tad, 1950's, it was apparent even to a child that the rivers were full of salmon in the fall on VI where I lived.  There were coho in the creeks and even in the ditches alongside of the road during November storms.   By the time I finished school in the late 60's, the coho were gone from the tiny creek and ditches and even most of the larger creeks.  We still caught fish in the ocean but the rowboat and bamboo rod had been replaced with a larger boat with an outboard and better fishing gear.    Based on the observations of one lifetime, any baseline later than 1955 misses the reality of the past and I have read Roderick Haig-Brown's work where he was lamenting the state of the fisheries in the 50's compared to what he saw in the 30's so maybe the baseline needs to be set even earlier.

[adriaticum]

Sure I would.
We need to end market/commercial fishing if we want to preserve the fisheries to future generations so that someone who wants to eat a fish can go to the river and catch one.

[wildmanyeah]

Sure I would.
We need to end market/commercial fishing if we want to preserve the fisheries to future generations so that someone who wants to eat a fish can go to the river and catch one.

Out catch is only one aspect of it. Urbanization seems to be the real salmon killer. How to address urbanization tho is not something our politicians want to talk about.

[adriaticum]

Out catch is only one aspect of it. Urbanization seems to be the real salmon killer. How to address urbanization tho is not something our politicians want to talk about.

and you disagreed with me on the other thread when I said overpopulation is the problem 

[wildmanyeah]

and you disagreed with me on the other thread when I said overpopulation is the problem 

hmm odd, I am a big believer that overpopulation is one of the main environmental issues.