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[RalphH]

I can see the day, perhaps very soon, hatchery fish will be used for broodstock.

Dave, did thet do that on the island when stock collapsed to the point there was no wild broodstock for hatchery programs?

Judging by the cancellation of the cutthroat hatchery program the staff at FLNRO would not be inclined to use hatchery fish for broodstock.

[Dave]

Dave, did thet do that on the island when stock collapsed to the point there was no wild broodstock for hatchery programs?

I don't think so but could be wrong. I know FLNRO will be against this idea, really that's their job to keep this system functioning as a wild steelhead river.  I applaud their efforts but the reality is hatchery protocols will have to be changed because there will not be enough wild fish to feed the system in place now.
There are a ton of anglers out there that want to catch and retain steelhead - that won't stop and more fish will be needed.
Considering the fact DFO has the final say in salmonid production at the Chilliwack facility, whatever changes that might come will be have to be heavily negotiated and all that takes time.

I believe the early run component of this system will be genetically extinct in 2 cycles if we continue the same practices.

[RalphH]

Hopefully that genetic component to run timing is not as hard wired as your last post assumes. Many later arriving fish may have an earlier returning non-dominant gene and aid in a recovery for that segment of the stock if appropriate conservation approaches are developed.

[avid angler]

Has anyone else seen the seal that’s been hanging out from crossing to Browne. Seen some pics of fish with fresh gashes. I wonder how many it’s picking off.

[Dave]

Hopefully that genetic component to run timing is not as hard wired as your last post assumes. Many later arriving fish may have an earlier returning non-dominant gene and aid in a recovery for that segment of the stock if appropriate conservation approaches are developed.

The 2004 LGL telemetry study concluded entry time didn't seem to matter much regarding migration, ie a few later run fish did migrate into the upper river.  I'm basing my prediction on numbers observed over the past 9 years, compared to what I remember 30 years ago. Ocean conditions were not kind to this years returning steelhead so I'm not optimistic but sure hope I'm wrong.

[Dave]

Has anyone else seen the seal that’s been hanging out from crossing to Browne. Seen some pics of fish with fresh gashes. I wonder how many it’s picking off.

Saw a picture of a seal slashed fish today.

[RalphH]

The 2004 LGL telemetry study concluded entry time didn't seem to matter much regarding migration, ie a few later run fish did migrate into the upper river. 

if... and it is a big if, the fish you and Buck observe  every spring are predominately early run fish (exactly what date range are early run fish? Everything for this season so far is based on limited and biased data sets) the telemetry study you referred to indicates there would be genetic mixing among those and later run strains. Even if the early genetic timing is non dominant some % of returning offspring would be part of the early component.

There is no way of knowing this but it is a possibility it is srtrongly suggested by Mendelian genetics.

[Dave]

if... and it is a big if, the fish you and Buck observe  every spring are predominately early run fish (exactly what date range are early run fish? Everything for this season so far is based on limited and biased data sets) the telemetry study you referred to indicates there would be genetic mixing among those and later run strains. Even if the early genetic timing is non dominant some % of returning offspring would be part of the early component.

There is no way of knowing this but it is a possibility it is srtrongly suggested by Mendelian genetics.

Agreed, and is probably the reason we still have a few early run fish. As stated before, I consider early run C-V fish to be Nov to late January.

[avid angler]

Have fisheries or conservation officers ever done anything about a problem seal? Having a resident seal in the lower vedder during the steelhead run could be disastrous.

[skaha]

--The intent of these articles is to get people who are (not in the know) to question or maybe research further into the subject. If enough people show interest then more informed coverage will follow. We should be encouraging people to ask questions and seek answers, rather than telling them how dumb and ill-informed they area.

[avid angler]

--The intent of these articles is to get people who are (not in the know) to question or maybe research further into the subject. If enough people show interest then more informed coverage will follow. We should be encouraging people to ask questions and seek answers, rather than telling them how dumb and ill-informed they area.

I don’t think anyone is calling the people asking questions dumb. It’s the people who
Don’t have a clue making bold, ill informed and ignorant statements about the situation. Potentially swaying the opinions of others.

[Dave]

Have fisheries or conservation officers ever done anything about a problem seal? Having a resident seal in the lower vedder during the steelhead run could be disastrous.

I recall in the 60's the local CO at the time, Art Butler, was rumored to have shot one at the Vedder bridge, and I have seen a dead seal at the train bridge at roughly the same time period.
Seals are relatively common on the C-V but so are otters and I often wonder if anglers get them confused.

[CohoJake]

I recall in the 60's the local CO at the time, Art Butler, was rumored to have shot one at the Vedder bridge, and I have seen a dead seal at the train bridge at roughly the same time period.
Seals are relatively common on the C-V but so are otters and I often wonder if anglers get them confused.

There was a seal hanging out at Hopedale road for an extended period during salmon season, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same one.

[RalphH]

--The intent of these articles is to get people who are (not in the know) to question or maybe research further into the subject. If enough people show interest then more informed coverage will follow. We should be encouraging people to ask questions and seek answers, rather than telling them how dumb and ill-informed they area.

some of the statements apparently by people who do fish were not questions and displayed considerable ignorance of steelhead biology and simplistic notions of what is causing the decline. I called this dumb and that's how I see it. My experience of people like that is they seldom raise the questions or do the research you suggest.

[Dave]

--The intent of these articles is to get people who are (not in the know) to question or maybe research further into the subject. If enough people show interest then more informed coverage will follow. We should be encouraging people to ask questions and seek answers, rather than telling them how dumb and ill-informed they area.

I agree, these posts should be developing discussion.  Along those lines, here is something a Provincial fisheries technician and I wrote 20 years ago.  The tech was almost fired for putting his name on it ..

Saving Vedder steelhead


Are wild steelhead populations on the C-V declining, holding their own,or increasing? Sadly there is scant data to suggest any of the 3 above scenarios have credence. The last snorkle-swim steelhead count conducted on the Chilliwack-Vedder system revealed what many have suspected for a long time – that despite catch and release regulations since the mid 1970’s wild, early run steelhead are not increasing in numbers and may in fact be decreasing. This is not a situation unique to the Vedder; several Vancouver Island streams are closed to angling due to alarmingly low numbers of fish.

The float count, conducted by Aquatic Resources Limited  Feb.15-18/00, revealed a total of 209 fish, of which an unknown number were adipose clipped hatchery fish. Obviously, not all of the fish present in the river were seen.  In some pools a known number of radio tagged fish  were present; not all of these fish were observed by the floaters. 

Geneticists suggest that when a population of animals dips to 200 individuals, the genetic diversity ( that is, the very characteristics that make that stock, or race, unique) is at risk of being unable to meet the “challenges”, ie. climate change, disease, changing water temperatures/levels that enable a species to survive. Diversity means strength and stability and for whatever reasons early run winter steelhead are possibly losing the challenge of being adaptable.

 Until we fully understand the mechanisms and processes that are driving the decline of wild steelhead, and other salmonids, it is imperative we take steps to halt the descent while in the freshwater environment.

The premise of this recovery plan is based on increasing the utilisation of the recently constructed Watershed Restoration and Fisheries Renewal projects in the Chilliwack River valley by increasing the numbers of spawners which in turn would increase numbers of fry and parr. This would be accomplished by allowing early run hatchery fish (progeny from the previous generation of wild fish) to spawn. Thankfully, the gene pool in the Chilliwack -Vedder system is still somewhat intact and because the numbers of wild fish are thought to be low, hatchery fish spawning will enhance the genetic diversity rather than harm it.

Here’s how we do it:

1.    Stop production of steelhead at the Chilliwack River Hatchery. 

2.   Change angling regulations on the Chilliwack –Vedder to catch and release for all steelhead/rainbow trout, year round, including the future generations of fin-clipped fish due to return.

3.   Allow angling using single, barbless hooks until Feb.28(9), any gear or lure.

4.   From Mar.1 to Mar.31. regulations change to allow fly fishing only; from Apr.1 to Ap.30 fly fishing only from Tamihi Bridge down, again single, barbless hooks.  Close river completely from May 1 to June 30.

5.   Transport hatchery steelhead arriving at the hatchery in late March- April, to areas considered suitable for steelhead, ie Upper Chilliwack River (Dolly Varden Creek), off channel habitat areas like Centennial and Yukalup channels, Slesse and Foley Creeks.
Continue this practice until hatchery (marked) fish no longer home in on hatchery water

6.   Divert the money spent to produce steelhead at the Chilliwack River Hatchery (app. $100,000 annually) to initialise, maintain and monitor an instream fertilisation program in the Chilliwack River watershed. This would of course benefit all species, not just steelhead. 


7.   Promote and encourage habitat enhancement projects in the mid and lower river areas.



8.   To allow anglers the opportunity of harvesting (killing) steelhead, increase hatchery production on the Chehalis, Allouette, Stave and Campbell River systems.




With proper tourism promotion we think this plan would have a beneficial impact on the local economy.  A quality, no kill, and dramatically less crowded fishery would attract many out of town anglers, especially during the fly only season (think Skeena system south, minus the jet boats).  Such regulations would win the accolades of conservation groups, environmentalists, guides and outfitters and, we think, any angler who is concerned about saving Vedder steelhead.

It is time to take measures if wild steelhead are to be part of British Columbia’s future. We do not have much control on steelhead ocean survival but do have a moral obligation to do whatever we can when they return to freshwater.  We cannot afford to wait any longer before taking action.





Just something to discuss.  Personally I don't think the appetite is there for a C&R only steelhead fishery on this river, but I still dream.