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[skaha]

--I don't think the intent of the 8 discussion points was to have them implemented now but more to demonstrate that there are always boots on the ground that have a feeling for what is or may be going on and needs work. What we are lacking is the political will from those who have the power to act on information supplied from informed sources and follow up with research to monitor and adjust as needed.

[RalphH]

ENGO don’t care about steelhead, First Nations don’t care about steelhead only recreational fishermen do. Reducing or eliminating C@R would be the end of anyone who cares about this fish.

PSF, BCWF and SSBC are all ENGOs.

Anything that is done to improve steelhead habitat  on any level will benefit steelhead and it doesn't matter who the group is that helps that happen.

anything that takes some pressure off early fish will help early fish.

It's worthwhile to look at other jurisdictions and fisheries and consider if they might be worthwhile. In Quebec Atlantic Salmon fishers can either kill one fish if allowed and stop fishing or catch and release 3 then they have to stop angling for the day. Since Dave suggested fly angling in his 8 points worth mentioning that in NFLD/Lab they can only Fly fish for salmon with floating lines, no weight on the line and no weight on the fly.

Point being is there any possible regulation that can reduce pressure on the fish but keep a fishery open? Maybe even just returning to the steelhead designated water regulation?

[Dave]

Good post Ralph.
When we suggested the fly only regulation we were thinking of how managers have changed angler practices in Eastern Canada for Atlantic salmon and how much that drove local economies.  We thought at the time, and I still do, that there needs to be a monetary valu associated with these fish to keep steelhead in the spotlight and keep populations viable.  That might mean using hatchery fish for brood stock to keep anglers buying punchcards and tackle stores in business, or change things up and have a limited fly only fishery to attract tourists.  Or, perhaps both.

The bottom line is things will have to change if we want any kind of steelhead fishery on the C-V.

[wildmanyeah]

"Steelhead and their biology" by John McMillan presented by the Steelhead Society of BC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=7_h8UT3v2AM&feature=emb_logo

[Dave]

"Steelhead and their biology" by John McMillan presented by the Steelhead Society of BC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=7_h8UT3v2AM&feature=emb_logo

Thanks for that!  It's interesting how important resident rainbows are to steelhead.  Perhaps it's telling as Buck and I were seeing trout with steelhead quite often, and documented it.
It's been several years since we have seen a trout, let alone with a steelhead.

[Morty]

https://www.gofishbc.com/Stocked-Fish/Detailed-Report.aspx?species_static=Steelhead&start=1/2/2010&end=1/2/2020

Interesting report.  What is the difference between "Diploid" and "Winter" or "Summer" fish.  I'm curious why they're reporting them separately.
I've read that "diploid" are normal reproductive individuals.

[wildmanyeah]

Thanks for that!  It's interesting how important resident rainbows are to steelhead.  Perhaps it's telling as Buck and I were seeing trout with steelhead quite often, and documented it.
It's been several years since we have seen a trout, let alone with a steelhead.

2016 you comment on seeing trout, the video is a great watch and the quy giving it is quite funny.

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=39637.msg374726#msg374726

The commentary from bent rod in the comment is interesting about catching lots of does and there being very few bucks in the same season you note trout with the spawning females. 

[Wiseguy]

Did not know how important resident rainbows are to steelhead! I do catch a few small rainbows every winter on the Vedder.

[RalphH]

the last half on how hatcheries change steelhead genetics and reduce diversity was far more important at least to the discussion topic. Essentially it points a finger directly at the hatchery program for changes in the structure of the steelhead runs and population. It also strongly suggests that hatchery reproduction has played a major role in steelhead declines on the south coast both in BC and the US.

Also called out the myth that what we call residuals in the V-C system should not be subject to a catch and kill fishery in the summer. The high population of residuals also suggests to me that something is not quite right in how that program is managed.

[wildmanyeah]

the last half on how hatcheries change steelhead genetics and reduce diversity was far more important at least to the discussion topic. Essentially it points a finger directly at the hatchery program for changes in the structure of the steelhead runs and population. It also strongly suggests that hatchery reproduction has played a major role in steelhead declines on the south coast both in BC and the US.

Also called out the myth that what we call residuals in the V-C system should not be subject to a catch and kill fishery in the summer. The high population of residuals also suggests to me that something is not quite right in how that program is managed.

and your solution is? I agree tho the trout fishery could be having a significant impact in the C/V system including the lakes.

[Dave]

the last half on how hatcheries change steelhead genetics and reduce diversity was far more important at least to the discussion topic. The high population of residuals also suggests to me that something is not quite right in how that program is managed.

If you mean high residualization on the C-V, it's because the juvenile steelhead released from the  Chilliwack River hatchery are not all smolting, some far from it.

[dnibbles]

The bottom line is things will have to change if we want any kind of steelhead fishery on the C-V.

Hey Dave,
Great stuff with your list. I think most if not all are still very valid today. While there are a lot of different considerations at play on this issue, I think it can be distilled down to a fairly simple question of tradeoffs. Are interested parties (this includes recreational anglers, local residents, non-local residents with an interest, local FNs, local businesses, conservationists etc) willing to accept likely loss of a sustainable wild steelhead population on the Chilliwack in order to provide recreational fishermen the opportunity to catch and kill a steelhead?  The pressure that is on the wild population is only going in one direction, as as other factors impact the producitivity of the wild fish the impacts being discussed here will become increasingly severe.  Fishermen (and society in general)  are not good at recognizing the clear tradeoffs that exist, and try to have our cake and eat it too. With salmonids it is apparent to me that that is no longer possible, so we either make a clear decision about what we are doing, or stand down and fix the harm we've done.

THe residualization issue is one I've observed at Chehalis as well when snorkelling in the canyon. There are thousands of clipped steelhead juveniles kilometres up in the canyon. Not good. In wild steelhead, trout are an important adaptive life history strategy but in hatchery systems this is nothing more than a symptom of issues with the hatchery program and an increasing pressure on the wild population.

[Roderick]

Hatchery programs had nothing to do with the decline of the Thompson steelhead run. 

Residual rainbows and jacks should always be a part (maybe 10-15%) of steelhead and salmon hatchery broodstock to help increase the bio-diversity of the run.

[Hike_and_fish]

Hey Dave,
Great stuff with your list. I think most if not all are still very valid today. While there are a lot of different considerations at play on this issue, I think it can be distilled down to a fairly simple question of tradeoffs. Are interested parties (this includes recreational anglers, local residents, non-local residents with an interest, local FNs, local businesses, conservationists etc) willing to accept likely loss of a sustainable wild steelhead population on the Chilliwack in order to provide recreational fishermen the opportunity to catch and kill a steelhead?  The pressure that is on the wild population is only going in one direction, as as other factors impact the producitivity of the wild fish the impacts being discussed here will become increasingly severe.  Fishermen (and society in general)  are not good at recognizing the clear tradeoffs that exist, and try to have our cake and eat it too. With salmonids it is apparent to me that that is no longer possible, so we either make a clear decision about what we are doing, or stand down and fix the harm we've done.

THe residualization issue is one I've observed at Chehalis as well when snorkelling in the canyon. There are thousands of clipped steelhead juveniles kilometres up in the canyon. Not good. In wild steelhead, trout are an important adaptive life history strategy but in hatchery systems this is nothing more than a symptom of issues with the hatchery program and an increasing pressure on the wild population.

Funny you mention the Chehalis. I snorkelers for a few years in a row. I witnessed the same thing. At first I thought ( wow look at all the trout ) bit I quickly realized they were all clipped and it made sense to me. These were all hatchery fish. The three times I snorkeled it from the Statlu down I noticed more wild fish ( Cutthroat ) in the Statlu than the Chehalis. I've seen pools full of wild fish in the Statlu and then none at the Chehlis confluence  I can remeber being at the base of the mini waterfall just 100 meters down from the Statlu in the Chehalis and seeing ( what seemed like ) 100's of smolts and 5 big Summer Steel in the tailout. The smolts were always at the front and the adults were always in the back. Every pool.

[RalphH]

If you mean high residualization on the C-V, it's because the juvenile steelhead released from the  Chilliwack River hatchery are not all smolting, some far from it.

I think you maybe should review that part of the presentation. Well fed smolts may be more inclined to remain in stream and interbreed with wild steelhead