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[RalphH]

True but not how the FN feel. They truly want everyone other than themselves off the water. They really do. FN corporations have taken more pieces of the pie away from the commercial and rec is not allowed to fish before they have their quotas ( in times of low abundance). How is this not clear to you ? Its black and white. High level FN leaders have said in the past publicly that they dont want non-FN fishing for salmon. It doesnt get any more clear than that. Put the pipe down.

I think what may be pissing you off is that FNs have learned to talk and think like you and like "whitey".

Imitation is a form of flattery.

I have lived in BC for over 60 years and until recent years never met a sporty who didn't think FNs shouldn't have what limited rights they had to fish for food, revoked, forced to buy a spin rod and  be sent away to residential school.

[bigblockfox]

True but not how the FN feel. They truly want everyone other than themselves off the water. They really do. FN corporations have taken more pieces of the pie away from the commercial and rec is not allowed to fish before they have their quotas ( in times of low abundance). How is this not clear to you ? Its black and white. High level FN leaders have said in the past publicly that they dont want non-FN fishing for salmon. It doesnt get any more clear than that. Put the pipe down.

can you blame them. look at the current stocks and tell me they don't have anything to fear. they have been able to harvest salmon for 1000's of years. we show up and almost decimated the population within 100 years. if you think conservation is not high on their priorities list you are mistaken.

[bigblockfox]

Why do you bring this up in a conversation about sturgeon regs? Is it to stir up anti-FN sentiment?

On a side note, I think it'a great that bands are lowering the barriers for FN kids to get educated. The high school graduation rate for FN kids is about 20% lower than the general population so any help, financial or otherwise, is great news

love initiatives like this. education is the true route out of poverty. also educated people have less room for hate.

my uncle did that exact same thing for me every birthday till i turned 18. i didn't pursue any post secondary education except for the schooling that enabled me to get my red seal which did not require any out of pocket expense. with that $ i was able to buy my first house and for that i am ever grateful. 

my point is that a little invest in people can go a long way into making a better society and i believe education is key.

[Hike_and_fish]

can you blame them. look at the current stocks and tell me they don't have anything to fear. they have been able to harvest salmon for 1000's of years. we show up and almost decimated the population within 100 years. if you think conservation is not high on their priorities list you are mistaken.

I dont blame them at all. Not in the least bit. I am just trying to scrap it out for myself and other people like me. That's who I care about. I have zero sympathy for them. They are an EXTREMELY privilege group in our country. Do I have feelings for the way they were treated in the past ? A little bit but that was done by the Catholic Church and executed by the government at the time. My fathers family has a long history with FN and trading. I have no guilt there. It's not my personal fault things are the way they are. I'm just looking out for myself at the end of the day.

[RalphH]

I dont blame them at all. Not in the least bit. I am just trying to scrap it out for myself and other people like me. That's who I care about. I have zero sympathy for them. They are an EXTREMELY privilege group in our country. Do I have feelings for the way they were treated in the past ? A little bit but that was done by the Catholic Church and executed by the government at the time. My fathers family has a long history with FN and trading. I have no guilt there. It's not my personal fault things are the way they are. I'm just looking out for myself at the end of the day.

Actually the residential schools were run by both Catholic (including the Jesuits) and Protestant denominations including the Anglican Church and Methodists. The Federal Government established them in law, funded them and oversaw them. The law literally stated the objective was to wipe out FN culture which posed a threat to the economic development of the Country.

Calling FNs "extremely privileged" is kind of akin to saying that chickens are extremely privileged birds because they can fly. FNs are at the bottom of the socio-economic pile by every parameter. Across the Canada few FN communities have access to an economic resource comparable to the fisheries and ocean resources that FNs have in Coastal BC. It is a relatively unique situation.

[Tylsie]

It is foolish to state that First Nations across Canada are privileged. But it is equally foolish to state that FN poaching and abuse of the resources does not happen either. Yes, 99 of all First Nations want to simply live a good, law abiding life. But all it takes is 1 with a boat and a few hundred meters of gill net to decimate stocks when returns are this poor. Many have to understand that just because the Band asks for something does not mean 100% of its members will follow.

It is never as simple as it appears, but First Nations must not be given blanket immunity. Yes, they fished for thousands of years until we came along. But they were awfully quick to jump in boats and use huge nets when given the chance. The salmon don't care who kills them, they are still dead. That is the point. And sport fisherman sure kill a lot less.

[wildmanyeah]

Two years ago my son was diagnosed with severe speech issues. While apply to get goverment assistance for speech therapy one of the DR for some reason checked the box that he was First Nations.

two things occurred that were very disturbing to my wife who received a call almost immediately.

1.  They asked my wife if she was the parental guardian because apparently with First Nations that's not usually the case and
2. They could get him immediately.  Upon indicating on the phone that he was not First Nations she then told my wife that she would have to put him on the regular list, he may not be eligible and the wait list was up to a year.

The part my Wife found disturbing was the lady found it surprising that my wife being the mother was still the parental guardian and still in my son's life.  Strangely enough when she was transferred over to non first nations, That question was never asked.

[bigblockfox]

It is foolish to state that First Nations across Canada are privileged. But it is equally foolish to state that FN poaching and abuse of the resources does not happen either. Yes, 99 of all First Nations want to simply live a good, law abiding life. But all it takes is 1 with a boat and a few hundred meters of gill net to decimate stocks when returns are this poor. Many have to understand that just because the Band asks for something does not mean 100% of its members will follow.

It is never as simple as it appears, but First Nations must not be given blanket immunity. Yes, they fished for thousands of years until we came along. But they were awfully quick to jump in boats and use huge nets when given the chance. The salmon don't care who kills them, they are still dead. That is the point. And sport fisherman sure kill a lot less.

couldn't agree with you more, but the fighting between user groups does nobody any good. we all have a common goal and the faster people relieaze this the faster we can actually save the species we all cherish so much.

[wildmanyeah]

anyways..back on topic...With complete silence on the issue from industry representatives, I have decided im not going to spend my efforts lobbying against a June closure. 

[bigblockfox]

if the scientific facts back the closure than their really is nothing to discuss.

[stsfisher]

anyways..back on topic...With complete silence on the issue from industry representatives, I have decided im not going to spend my efforts lobbying against a June closure.

I am betting industry reps are silent because there is no real consultation process as of yet.....
Without an actual government page or town hall type forums how and where would they even begin a consultation process? Here on this forum that is being monitored by a biologist? what does that do and how transparent is that information?
I still can not find anything on-line, and like you have seen or heard zero word on what other "stakeholders or representatives" as people have called then here and where flame-basted, think of this potential recommendation. I do wonder what industry reps you think should be voicing their opinions?
 It makes me wonder why this topic was even brought to a public forum without having this consultation factor in place, where a member of the public can go to get facts  or have their points of interest heard/documented properly. Clearly Rods forum is not the place for DFO and Provincial authorities to gain information or consultation on such a matter.

[wildmanyeah]

I am betting industry reps are silent because there is no real consultation process as of yet.....
Without an actual government page or town hall type forums how and where would they even begin a consultation process? Here on this forum that is being monitored by a biologist? what does that do and how transparent is that information?
I still can not find anything on-line, and like you have seen or heard zero word on what other "stakeholders or representatives" as people have called then here and where flame-basted, think of this potential recommendation. I do wonder what industry reps you think should be voicing their opinions?
 It makes me wonder why this topic was even brought to a public forum without having this consultation factor in place, where a member of the public can go to get facts  or have their points of interest heard/documented properly. Clearly Rods forum is not the place for DFO and Provincial authorities to gain information or consultation on such a matter.

In the fall a Province representative came to our SFAC and told us they they have been in consultations with industry reps for quite some time on this topic and now there are going to start rolling it out to the public. They want to implement this for the 2021 season. So thats not giving a lot of time for this to make though all the processes and consultations. As well as you correctly point out no information has been provided online.

[bigblockfox]

 It makes me wonder why this topic was even brought to a public forum without having this consultation factor in place, where a member of the public can go to get facts  or have their points of interest heard/documented properly. Clearly Rods forum is not the place for DFO and Provincial authorities to gain information or consultation on such a matter.

the facts at the vary least should have been provided already. much easier pill for people to swallow if it is back by facts.

[Rodney]

As mentioned earlier, if anyone would like to talk about this particular proposal, as well as a series of other ongoing issues from Upper Fraser River chinook salmon survival to Chilliwack River winter steelhead hatchery program, I highly recommend you to attend this year's Chilliwack's All About Fishing on Saturday March 14th, from 9am to 3pm, at Chilliwack Heritage Park. I have invited regional bios, some of my colleagues from UBC, BCIT, Carleton, all the main representatives from BCFFF, BCFDF, SSBC, BCWF, FRSA and just about everyone has committed to be at the show. You'll be able to address all your concerns under one roof, so the opportunities are here for you to take and make some changes.

[firstlight]

As mentioned earlier, if anyone would like to talk about this particular proposal, as well as a series of other ongoing issues from Upper Fraser River chinook salmon survival to Chilliwack River winter steelhead hatchery program, I highly recommend you to attend this year's Chilliwack's All About Fishing on Saturday March 14th, from 9am to 3pm, at Chilliwack Heritage Park. I have invited regional bios, some of my colleagues from UBC, BCIT, Carleton, all the main representatives from BCFFF, BCFDF, SSBC, BCWF, FRSA and just about everyone has committed to be at the show. You'll be able to address all your concerns under one roof, so the opportunities are here for you to take and make some changes.

Being at the show is great but in what capacity as far as asking questions goes?
How will we go about addressing our concerns to these people?
Are they having seminars or question periods or......