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[Robert_G]

I don't share their or your outrage at what Tam said. It is certainly no less effective than what is in place for people dealing with self isolation and substance dependency.

I'm not sure comparing self isolation with substance dependency and/or street drug addiction in that context of using 'Zoom' is going to get you even a 'C+' on a college assignment.
Addiction/dependency and self isolation/loneliness are not usually (but sometimes) overcome by the same methods.

[clarki]

I was trying to be creative and a little tongue cheek. I'll try it this way instead.

Dr. Tam: Use Zoom with a buddy when you shoot up

You: I implore people to stop listening to her. She is nuts. No self respecting person would ever say anything like this.

Dr Tam: Of course I don’t eat advocate harm reduction and using Zoom as the only response to solve the drug problem  I advocate for a broad approach.  The conversation was about isolation during the pandemic and that’s what I was speaking about. I wasn’t implying it was the only approach. If you were around other conversations I’ve had in the past you would know that I have talked about a broad spectrum of prevention and treatment measures.

Back to me real time.. If you ask me, two individuals using Zoom to keep each other safe while the take drugs is a great suggestion during this time of isolation. No charity, no wasted tax dollars, no babysitting. Just two people looking out for each other and taking responsibility for themselves and each other. 

[RalphH]

well the suggestions were not made in a college assignment and their relative worth depends on context.

As near as I can tell, outside of a welfare cheque most people addicted to illegal drugs get very little support from our society and less from our government. Of those people I have known who have been in the situation or had family in that circumstances had great difficulty getting help.

[GordJ]

Faith based drug treatment centres.....have a 90% success rate.

That is a complete and total falsehood. You must have absolutely no contact with any addiction groups and if one of your church groups is telling you that they’re lying to you.  There is no program anywhere that has anything near that success rate.

[Robert_G]

Dr Tam: Of course I don’t eat advocate harm reduction and using Zoom as the only response to solve the drug problem

But she still said it.

Back to me real time.. If you ask me, two individuals using Zoom to keep each other safe while the take drugs is a great suggestion during this time of isolation. No charity, no wasted tax dollars, no babysitting. Just two people looking out for each other and taking responsibility for themselves and each other.

This is where you lose me. You bypass the real problem and go for the dirty band aid. You can deny it all you want. Your exact quote here is nothing more than a dirty band aid solution.
The words "responsibility" and "drug addict" don't coexist together. A drug addict will say any lie to anyone to get that next fix. That next fix controls every aspect of his or her being. There is literally zero logical reasoning in that person when they are coming down and need that next fix. Dare I say that they are teetering the edge of not even being human?
Again....it shows you can't get past the dirty band aid and see that a real solution is needed.

You are correct though that this particular statement of hers didn't require tax payer dollars.....nice for a change.

Of those people I have known who have been in the situation or had family in that circumstances had great difficulty getting help.

I don't disagree with that, but maybe if we weren't wasting money on safe injection centers…...maybe instead of handing welfare checks out to drug addicts who in turn hand their welfare check over to drug dealers.....maybe that money could instead be used for rehab. When it comes to drug addicts....the end recipient of their welfare check (paid for by taxpayers) is the drug dealers....period. That needs to stop.

I've heard and read conflicting information on Rehab facilities. One source says there isn't enough Rehab....another says the ones we have are quite often empty so they don't open up more.
Which one is it, because I've heard both arguments equally.

That is a complete and total falsehood. You must have absolutely no contact with any addiction groups and if one of your church groups is telling you that they’re lying to you.  There is no program anywhere that has anything near that success rate.

I can't say one way or another for the 90% success rate, but being involved with churches that do it, I can tell you that there is some phenomenal success with it....and the one's who do quit, usually quit for life (both drugs and/or alcohol). That's the power of God when someone asks Him for it. AA type organizations can't even touch that level of success.

[Robert_G]

but it takes tough love sometimes.

Countries that take a very very strict stance against drug pushers or drug users do not have people taking over city blocks....discarded needles....high crime rate assaults ....

Drugs ..means long jail time....and even death penalty ...in some of these countries.
Looks mean ....but it sure has curbed the mass numbers of drug addicts that would exist otherwise ...which would mean deaths...crime ...suffering anyways.

I forgot about the hard line some countries take with drugs. It's too easy to get comfortable with our bleeding heart law making here.
It's true that you rarely see drug pushing...discarded needles....etc in those countries....because if you get caught you go to jail or executed.
But we all know those laws would never pass here, because it's not really the drug addicts fault. Here in Canada we blame everyone but ourselves for the predicament we get ourselves into. Why would anyone take responsibility for their own poor choices?

[cutthroat22]

Holy guacamole.  This thread has the most replies in the General Discussion section...ever.

But I did learn that faith based treatment has 90% success rate.

[Blood_Orange]

Here in Canada we blame everyone but ourselves for the predicament we get ourselves into. Why would anyone take responsibility for their own poor choices?

My stepbrother is an addict. We don't know where he is or how he's doing, as he dropped off the radar years ago. He's struggled with schizophrenia his whole life and got into soft drugs as a teenager and hard drugs later in life. The combination of drugs and mental illness is a one-two punch that many people don't recover from. You could argue that we all started off with the same choices in life and that he just made poor decisions but that's far too simplistic an assessment. Sometimes life sucks and some people get dealt a bad hand. Compassion is required, although I admit it's hard to keep in mind when your car window is smashed because someone stole your spare change for drugs.

Unrelated, but how do Christians square their beliefs with support for the death penalty? Honest question. One of the commandments is anti-killing, so that means someone has to violate it to carry out the punishment. I listened to a podcast years ago about a prison warden who was given the task of executing an inmate in a state that hadn't carried out an execution in decades. They practiced for weeks to ensure that things went smoothly. The execution was carried out and it took an incredible emotional toll on the staff. It was a powerful story that sticks with me to this day. I've never had sympathy for murderers and other violent criminals but I've since felt a huge amount of sympathy for the prison staff who must carry out executions. It sounds bad for the soul.

To hear the story, click the link, then click the play button near the top of the page. For those who don't know, podcasts are radio shows that you can listen to whenever you choose. They play in your internet browser or you can download them onto your phone and play them while you drive. This one's about 27 minutes long.

https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-95-the-job-7-20-2018/

[arimaBOATER]

Holy guacamole.  This thread has the most replies in the General Discussion section...ever.

But I did learn that faith based treatment has 90% success rate.

GordJ & cutthroat22 as Robert said ....people with a drug problem if they truly meet God ..their whole life changes....vices no longer control them.

Ok did see once about Teen Challenge a Christian drug rehab in over 110 countries ( something like that ) says /claims if a person stays in the 12 month program ( does not drop out ) about 86% is the success rate. So I just rounded it up to 90%.

Just in recent yrs the name changed to Adult & Teen Challenge.
There are local Adult & Teen Challenge treatment centres & right across Canada.
They started in the USA back in the 1960's
Two founders David & Don Wilkerson.
David Wilkerson died about 8-10 yrs ago....He wrote a true account about bringing God to NYC street gangs....the book sold like about 10-14 million copies ( something like that)
Movie of the same title was made as well.
Book and movie called: The Cross and the Switchblade.
You can watch the movie for free on Youtube.
Pat Boone plays the role of Pastor Wilkerson and Erik Estrada plays Nicky Cruz a gang leader of one of the gangs.
The acting and plot is super!!!
Erik Estrada played on Chips ...the motorbike California Highway Patrol. Tv series in 80s I think it was.
Honestly whenever I have watched the movie ...and one point of watching...I have felt the Presence of the Holy Spirit come on me.
This tells me that this movie is anointed by God's Spirit !!!
One of the gang leaders got saved ....many others...Nicky Cruz who wrote 2 or more books ...
One was Run Baby Run and the other....Satan on the Loose....
( also a 30 minute film was done ...Satan on the Loose ....warning about the occult ) 

There was a famous prison Chaplin ....think his name was Pastor Ray ....he led some of the worst and famous criminals to Christ. Maybe his name was Chaplin Ray.
Either Pastor or chaplain Ray.....
He had books out of criminals who met Christ....a radio program.
There is another famous Christian organization ...they have radio drama of true stories of ex drug addicts ...criminals ...alcoholics ..so on who met Christ. Maybe on Youtube too...
Radio drama.....it's called: Unshackled.

EDIT IN: Don Wilkerson co founder of Teen Challenge got Covid 19 ....but has since beat it !!!!

[arimaBOATER]

unshackled.org

Click on "browse all programs"
There you can listen to true radio drama stories of those who God saved out of many vices...
1370 (think it is)...radio drama true stories !!!
Super....
I bet it will be on youtube too.

[big_fish]

if a person stays in the 12 month program ( does not drop out ) about 86% is the success rate. So I just rounded it up to 90%.

LOL!! Um... If 8 of the 10 people drop out of the program... and 90% of the 2 people who complete the program succeed.... it does not mean the program has a 90% success rate... Uh, it'd be less than 20%... 18% to be exact.

This is why you're not fit for this kind of discussion. every f'n thing is about faith and you lack the skills and knowledge when it comes to real life solutions.

LOL!

[Robert_G]

My stepbrother is an addict. We don't know where he is or how he's doing, as he dropped off the radar years ago. He's struggled with schizophrenia his whole life and got into soft drugs as a teenager and hard drugs later in life. The combination of drugs and mental illness is a one-two punch that many people don't recover from. You could argue that we all started off with the same choices in life and that he just made poor decisions but that's far too simplistic an assessment. Sometimes life sucks and some people get dealt a bad hand. Compassion is required, although I admit it's hard to keep in mind when your car window is smashed because someone stole your spare change for drugs.

Compassion is always needed, but everyone has to take responsibility. I feel a little more for those with mental illness though. Sometimes mental illness comes from circumstances that are not the person's fault, like fetal alcohol syndrome, child abuse...etc...etc. You can't help but show compassion for those. My issue however is this: When you get to that age (mental illness or no mental illness)....even if it's as young as 12 or 13...you already know what hard street drugs are going to do to you. You've been taught and warned. When you take it that first time....you've already been taught and warned that one time can get you hooked and ruin your life. So why do they still take it that first time? They aren't addicted yet.....You can't blame mental illness at 13 years of age for experimenting with drugs....no freaking way. They take it because they think it will bring them out of the depths of despair of what their life currently is.....even though they've been warned and taught countless times that it's a dangerous myth.
At the end of the day.....they have only themselves and their own wishful thinking selfishness to blame.

Unrelated, but how do Christians square their beliefs with support for the death penalty? Honest question. One of the commandments is anti-killing, so that means someone has to violate it to carry out the punishment.

Unfortunately, bible translations aren't English language perfect. That does NOT change the fact that the Holy Scriptures are infallible and inerrant and divinely inspired by God.
The original King James version uses the word 'kill' in the 10 commandments where it should say "You shall not murder"
The original Dead Sea Scrolls when translated directly to English undeniably use the word 'murder'.....not 'kill'.  Most modern bibles use the word 'murder'. The original meaning of that particular ancient Hebrew word in English is 'murder'

So it is a sin to murder someone. Killing someone is NOT always a sin depending on the circumstance.
The bible teaches that both capital punishment and self defense resulting in the death of the one attacking you is NOT a sin at all.
The bible also teaches though that capital punishment must be done fairly by the law enforcement in a proper court setting. Lynch mobs were never allowed or condoned in the bible.

With that said....some Christians don't agree with the death penalty, but scripture teaches differently. Provided the above steps are taken...there are many instances where God says a person should be put to death.

[Robert_G]

LOL!! Um... If 8 of the 10 people drop out of the program... and 90% of the 2 people who complete the program succeed.... it does not mean the program has a 90% success rate... Uh, it'd be less than 20%... 18% to be exact.

This is why you're not fit for this kind of discussion. every f'n thing is about faith and you lack the skills and knowledge when it comes to real life solutions.

LOL!

Actually, you're wrong. It's the same stats as colleges and universities.
The average 'class' grades are only calculated by those who finish the semester. Drop outs aren't included in the stats.
Most programs that are involved in all sorts of life stuff calculate it the same way.

[arimaBOATER]

Actually, you're wrong. It's the same stats as colleges and universities.
The average 'class' grades are only calculated by those who finish the semester. Drop outs aren't included in the stats.
Most programs that are involved in all sorts of life stuff calculate it the same way.

That's right that's right !!!
The only thing I'm guilty of is saying 90% when it's 86% 

big fish go to: unshackled.org
And listen to free true radio dramas on the net.
Ya just might get tears in your eyes....

[bobby b]

You two are so ignorant you both make me sick reading your bible slanted BS

Using the bible to justify the fact that you condone killing... because it's not murder? .....pull your head out of your ***

A large percentage of drug addiction comes from having been abused mentally and sexually as a child.
Imagine how many drug addictions and suicides the church has caused!!

You think all those kids that have been diddled by Priests have stable mental health now? You think they can control how they act out, drugs, abuse etc...

How about all the Native kids, whole families,  that had their lives destroyed by the  church!

Take that shyte rag of a book and stick it where the sun don't shine.