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[IronNoggin]

 From a fellow on SFBC (with permission):

Going to jump in here and clear up a few things. My first degree is in Biochemistry / Microbiology; my wife wrote her masters in Virology (in a lab that contributed to sequencing the SARS genome) and has worked in public health, research institutions including level 3 biosafety laboratories, and big pharma. I'm not pretending to be an expert in coronavirus or COVID-19, but there is some basic stuff that I think people should understand about what we are facing in order to make better decisions - and just stay sane.

The paper does not say that SARS-CoV-2 (CoV) remains infectious for up to 17 day on surfaces. The "What is added by this report" states: "...Transmission occurred across multiple voyages from ship to ship by crew members; both crew members and passengers were affected..." - that's the key takeaway. What they found was RNA on untreated surfaces. RNA is the genetic material for the CoV virus and frankly it is not surprising that it would be found. This does not mean that there is viable virus present capable of causing infection. It is analogous to finding a suspect's DNA at a crime scene - doesn't mean they are still there in the room ready to commit another crime. The RNA by itself is not capable of causing infection.

(Also, virus don't "live" anywhere and you don't "kill" them. They are not living organism in that they cannot reproduce on their own. They have to highjack another cell's machinery in order to reproduce. Referring to them as living is like calling whales fish, although whales and fish (or whales and bacteria for that matter) have more in common with each other than viruses to even the most basic single celled organism.)

The reports of the virus being infectious on different surfaces for up to three days are misleading if not fully understood. Yes, they have been able to find - under laboratory conditions - viable virus after several days, but most virus particles that were placed on the surfaces have broken down and are no longer infectious. It is not clear even if the number of virus that were placed on the surface are is comparable to what would be found naturally (i.e. someone coughing in their hand and touching a handle), or if the number of viable virus at the end of the time periods they are quoting would be sufficient to cause infection. No need to leave your groceries sitting for several days when you get home. Put them away and wash your hands after.

Don't try using your Instant Pot (or similar) "sterilization" cycle and think you are in the clear - it doesn't generate sufficient pressure to properly sterilize items (an old school pressure cooker will reach sufficient pressure). A medical autoclave also displaces the air in the chamber with steam to achieve proper sterilization. The best way to clean items you are concerned about is to wash with either soap and water, a solution with at least 70% ethanol, or a bleach solution (not full strength). And the best way to avoid being infected is to wash your hands with soap (doesn't have to be "anti-bacterial"), practice social distancing, wash your hands, don't touch your face, and wash your hands. Hand sanitizer is ok if needed, but washing your hands properly is better. Gloves and face masks can actually increase your risk of getting infected if you haven't been trained in their use and don't practice proper techniques in donning and removing, and they can create bad habits through instilling a false sense of security.

Remember that "flattening the curve" means spreading out the period of the outbreak - it doesn't mean eliminating the chance of getting sick. The way things are going with the virus firmly established in the population, there's a good probability that things won't return to normal until 70%+ of the population has had it and herd immunity is developed. The goal with flattening the curve is not to overload the health care system at one time in order than the system can keep things manageable. So be prepared that the changes you make to your daily habits are going to be with your for a while - months if not longer - so they should be things that are easy to live with. Again washing your hands, social distancing and not touching your face are the most important things you can do; trying to go above and beyond with elaborate systems is going to produce diminishing or potentially even negative returns and could be untenable. And if you get sick, self isolate; it is way easier to avoid spreading the disease than it is to avoid catching it.

And think critically and look for a second opinions on anything you read and have questions about by sticking the proper authorities - Health Canada, WHO, CDC, etc. What we are going through is unprecedented and everyone is looking for answers that in a lot of cases are just not there (vaccines, miracle drugs, ibuprofen makes it worse, etc.) which creates the perfect situation for misinformation to spread. Fortunately for the vast majority of people a case of COVID-19 will be relatively mild and we are not dealing with something more virulent. Stay safe, stay healthy and stay sane.

[arimaBOATER]

I'll never learn, still every season I eat chips or something on the drive home and lick my fingers before I remember I have been fishing with roe all day. 

clarki & CohoJake ....ya we all can be guilty of doing that.
Our eyes just cannot see what is crawling micro size everywhere...dust mites germs viruses (bedbugs /fleas/ wood ticks /crabs/lice) ..even if one's eye's are not 20/20.
Even Mr Magoo seeing a stand up coat hanger said. " How do you do madam "
Yes wash your hands wash your hands wash your hands...
Eating potato chips driving home & licking fingers can & may KILL YOU.
Washing my hands at lest 20x a day.
One guy said conserve toilet paper so he suggested you use both sides so it will last 2x longer
If that advice was followed ...wash hands 500x daily.
What's his name? Comedy guy. Think he's a Canadian. He's known to have extra fear of germs.
He's on those shows (judge) America Got Talent ...
Seen a picture of him ( oh ya Howie Mandell ) the other day & he looked like he was in a NASA space suit.
But wow NYC is a hot bed for the virus now. Europe 1000's dying daily.
Wonder how Mrs. Trudeau is doing?
Weird how some get it & get light symptoms & others get very sick & die quickly. Young or old.
Depends how strong our system is ( how healthy we are to fight it. )
Wash hands but also eat healthy & get zzzzzz.
Do not get angry....people who blow their top get so stressed out...blood pressure etc...breathing heavy...raw raw raw ...they set themselves up to get very ill should they pick up a virus.
As that song goes" Don't worry ..be happy "
To relax go to youtube & listen to Orange Blossom Special vids...violins etc...Walbash Cannon Ball ...or that banjo battle /or banjo and guitar battle...the one scene in that movie Deliverance.

Yes it seems more logical now or clearer to why driving to lake or river is a no no in these times.
By the way is this all just a bad dream or my imagination?
It all just seems this is not possible.
Only 4 weeks ago there were not so many cases & now ...
Scary part is we have to wonder " will we get it ? "
And the other ..."is this going to get worse & worse & last over a year?"
Will super marts keep open should this go on for a long duration?
If all stores close then home invasion robbery crime murder etc...we all will need a weapon to protect our homes & family.
Just saying.
Let 's hope & pray everything turns around soon.
I see Nog has posted as I'm typing this up so......ya all got lots of reading to do.
Miss fishing ...watch Rod's fishing vids.
Miss sports...watch sports on youtube.
Canucks win everytime over the Leafs are the vids I 'm watching. 

[Robert_G]

http://deathmeters.info/ "Top 20 death causes in the World 2020 live"

Strange....Covid-19 isn't even on this list...the numbers aren't even a fraction of what's on that list....and yet we're about to let it destroy the economy and perhaps usher in martial law.
We should be careful and sensible of course right now, but the fear mongering is beyond out of control.

[arimaBOATER]

http://deathmeters.info/ "Top 20 death causes in the World 2020 live"

Strange....Covid-19 isn't even on this list...the numbers aren't even a fraction of what's on that list....and yet we're about to let it destroy the economy and perhaps usher in martial law.
We should be careful and sensible of course right now, but the fear mongering is beyond out of control.

Well let nature take it's course but it's the unknown of the future...sure "tons" die everyday by heart attack cancer crime accidents ...but heart attack ...diabetic ...cancer....generally speaking people have lived a few yrs....40's 60's 80's yr old ....but a virus.....it's like the lottery...win or lose...odds to get it change...ask NYC & Europe right now if they have any reason to be overly concerned.
More people are dying from it in the world daily that possibly surpasses 9-11.
And the 1918 Spanish flu 18 months took out a mere 50-100 million people.

But what gets me is where did this virus start? Was it really from that wet market in Wuhan?
Some say yes others no. Talking to one guy who thought it did come from the wet market...because of all the reptiles dogs cats bats snakes lizards etc they kill live on the chopping block and he thinks those chopping blocks never get properly sanitized ..thus blood guts scales ...maybe some soapy water splashed on the chopping block but next day the whole process starts again.
If the virus did start from there then hopefully these places get shut down..
Or will these markets just go underground. & in time another virus starts up.
But who knows really where this virus started...just muted on it's own from another already virus possibly.
One thing is it's not good to fear ...but as Nog 's insight's in his recent posts...this is not a thing to sneeze at or take lightly. As he says we have to try everything to try not to get it. Hand washing & isolation & keeping our distance from others when in public places. (Nog excellent insights)

I've had in the past mono, hep B, flu, heart attack ( when getting out of hospital felt so dizzy/weak thought I'd never ride my pedal bike again...hep B they told me not to eat starchy food..liver sick so starchy food will be very hard to digest. Oh great had French fries the day before...it felt like a brick in my intestines for 3 weeks. No stranger to being major sick.
So being sick which we all have been is just no no fun.
Today while shopping for food heard from across the store a really bad cough by someone.
Thought oh good it's far away across the store.
But then thought oh no I have to go over that direction to go to cashiers 
Lots of people walking around with masks...
Just hope BC does not get like NYC or Italy or Spain or France etc...then it will be FEARFUL.

Italy the coffin business is doing well. Think they do not burn bodies in that country.
100s of coffins daily being moved by trucks with the freshly dead.
But those on the front lines medical store wkrs care aids etc...are heros at this time.
Is it 7 pm and people bang pots / make noise to express people's thank you ? ( for their service )

[IronNoggin]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-trump-border-coronavirus-1.5510853

US Troops To The Canada / US Border.

WTF next?

Spooky,
Nog

[RalphH]

perhaps that's yer live fire exercise? Pot shots at Canucks to boost Trump's re-election chances?

[IronNoggin]

perhaps that's yer live fire exercise? Pot shots at Canucks to boost Trump's re-election chances?

Nope. Try again Ralphie ol' chap...

It's out there. You should be able to discover what the gist of that particular matter was...

Cheers,
Nog

[Wiseguy]

perhaps that's yer live fire exercise? Pot shots at Canucks to boost Trump's re-election chances?

LOL. Good one Ralph.

[Robert_G]

Well let nature take it's course but it's the unknown of the future...sure "tons" die everyday by heart attack cancer crime accidents ...but heart attack ...diabetic ...cancer....generally speaking people have lived a few yrs....40's 60's 80's yr old ....but a virus.....it's like the lottery...win or lose...odds to get it change...ask NYC & Europe right now if they have any reason to be overly concerned.
More people are dying from it in the world daily that possibly surpasses 9-11.
And the 1918 Spanish flu 18 months took out a mere 50-100 million people.

Let me be clear on something. I am not of the mentality of sacrifice some so the economy can thrive. I know that is going on with some right now, but that's not what I meant...nor do I think that is moral....although real life does sometimes present situations where not all can be saved and tough decisions must be made.

It's just that it has become obvious that there are certain groups (*cough* progressive democratic left wing woke crowd) who want Trump to lose the election soooo badly, that they want the current pandemic to last long enough up until the election so they can blame everything on him....and then have him lose the election.

The result as has been the case so far is extreme fear mongering. If you watch Trump's press conferences, he has scientists and other experts up there with him on the podium who agree with him that certain people are trying their best to bring more fear than is needed to the general population. These experts have said publicly that the fear mongering needs to stop.

[Fish Assassin]

Trump is an idiot. Nobody except his supporters truly believe that Canada is sending illegal migrants to the US during this health crisis. Nothing more than a divisionary tactic to draw attention from the way he's managed the pandemic.

[arimaBOATER]

Democrats have been on attack against Trump from the 1st day of his office.
90% of the news media are against Trump
90% of Hollywood is against Trump
90% of news TV & print are against Trump
 90% of tv talk day & evening are against Trump
Still somehow Trump was elected...and the voting powers in the coming election is anyone 's guess on who will win.
Me if I were an American definitely would be a Republican.
Make America great again.
Republicans line up more with my personal faith.
But that's what voting is all about.
Power in a single vote.
But with this virus people should unite & leave political gain out of it.
This virus will kill both democrats & republicans.
As for Trump ...he's far from perfect.
He is so under attack I think he gets defensive & reacts too quickly.
So yes FA Trump does put his foot in his mouth.

Mind you I would not want his job. N Korea threatening to launch nukes...
China Russia Middle East Iran Turkey Syria Libya ...problem after problem.
The rich Chinese businessman who criticized the China leader....over the Covid 19 crisis ..is now missing.
In the USA & Canada we can criticize our Pres or PM & still go to sleep in our own bed.

[RalphH]

Me if I were an American definitely would be a Republican.
Make America great again.
Republicans line up more with my personal faith.

So much for the separation of Church and State.

But then it's bad that certain segments of the US line up against Trump but is ok for the Prosperity Gospel Mammonites to line up with Trump.

Was chatting with the neighbor yesterday. His Brother married a US Citizen and they live in Arizona. She went to the same church all her life but in 2016 the Chaplain told the congregation they must vote for Trump to be good "Christians". She walked out right then and there and never went back.

Trump is about as Christian as a snail.

My wife has relations in the states. They can't believe what's happened there since 2016 and most who were Republicans can't believe what has happened to the Republican party in the last 20 to 30 years.

Trump doesn't need an extended Covid-19 outbreak to lose. His unbelievably incompetent behavior will do it for him. He can't even crack a 50% approval rating in the biggest National crisis in over 10 years.

[Spoonman]

......90% of the facts truth and reality are against trump.....

[Robert_G]

......90% of the facts truth and reality are against trump.....

You really should stop listening to CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CBC, CTV, etc.....and also stop reading the NY Times and Washington Post...among many others. Then perhaps you'll have enough unbiased information to make an educated opinion on the matter. Listening to only the progressive woke sources doesn't do anyone any good.

[Robert_G]

So much for the separation of Church and State.
Was chatting with the neighbor yesterday. His Brother married a US Citizen and they live in Arizona. She went to the same church all her life but in 2016 the Chaplain told the congregation they must vote for Trump to be good "Christians". She walked out right then and there and never went back.

As a Christian myself, I don't agree that a pastor should tell or preach, or try to manipulate who Christians should vote for. Anyone who is a devout Christian already knows you don't vote for Killary Clinton or anyone else on the baby murdering progressive left...so what the pastor said was actually quite redundant.

Trump is about as Christian as a snail.

Whether or not that is true....I'd like to know what information God gave you that gives you the inside knowledge to another man's soul. Please enlighten me.
Again as for the pastor saying to vote for Trump....what he should have said was to not vote for Killary Clinton. She is the devil incarnate. Christians are not to support the devil.