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[bigblockfox]

i apologise, i thought the catch cards were the only way they were obtaining their information. i have been actively steelheading for 15 years and i have never ran into someone that is asking me about my catch in person. didn't know that was actively done anymore. 95% of that fishing has been done here in the fraser valley and squamish valley with about 5% on the island. i would like to think snorkel counts make up most of their management decisions but i guess thats a pipe dream.

90% of the rivers i fish are 1 hatchery fish per day or realase all steelhead here in the lower mainland. i have never encountered a hatchery fish in a river where i though it shouldn't be.

it just seems to me the only reason the vedder is what it is today is because of the hatchery. look at all of the fraser tributaries without hatcheries and look what shape they are in. some even have hatcheries and its still dismal.

and for the record, i could care less if their are any hatchery steelhead. if biologist believe this is the best way forward than that's what should happen. what ever way gets us to back to a strong wild population the better. wild>hatchery

[bigblockfox]

If the whole goal is just to "eradicate" hatchery fish, rather than using the program to enhance angling quality (which isn't always measured by how many you catch/keep in a day), I wonder why there is even a need for a hatchery program then. You'd put 60 extra wild spawners in the river, protecting key spawning area by closing the upper river after March 31st, which should result in a much better return right? Or maybe I shouldn't go there....

was just going to say the same thing but i deleted it

[Rodney]

and for the record, i could care less if their are any hatchery steelhead. if biologist believe this is the best way forward than that's what should happen. what ever way gets us to back to a strong wild population the better. wild>hatchery

This brings up my next question. So are we, or the province, ok with having strictly catch and release wild steelhead fisheries? Or is that going to be unacceptable in the long run. DFO has already made that move last year, removing all exclusive catch and release fisheries for salmon in Region 2, and will managing rec freshwater salmon fisheries by either opening for retention, or closing completely.

Personally I'm not ok with having a wild steelhead catch and release fishery at the same level of access which the Vedder sees.

[Dave]

This brings up my next question. So are we, or the province, ok with having strictly catch and release wild steelhead fisheries? Or is that going to be unacceptable in the long run. DFO has already made that move last year, removing all exclusive catch and release fisheries for salmon in Region 2, and will managing rec freshwater salmon fisheries by either opening for retention, or closing completely.

Personally I'm not ok with having a wild steelhead catch and release fishery at the same level of access which the Vedder sees.

C&R fisheries are not OK with FN, now.  If we want any kind of sports fishery in the future we had better start building some sort of partnership with them soon.

[Rodney]

C&R fisheries are not OK with FN, now.

Well C&R fisheries are not ok with a lot of non-fishing non-FN too.

The other thing to consider is that if the hatchery program is removed, participation would drop, initiatives like the fundraising for FVWC would disappear too.

[Dave]

Well C&R fisheries are not ok with a lot of non-fishing non-FN too.

The other thing to consider is that if the hatchery program is removed, participation would drop, initiatives like the fundraising for FVWC would disappear too.

I wonder if participation would drop?  Fishing on wild fish would attract a lot of people, especially from out of country ( when that happens again, lol) and those people tend to have deep pockets.  Anyway, by then it will be FN dictating the terms 

Seriously, imo the best thing to happen would be to stop steelhead production at the Chilliwack hatchery and spend the money on habitat restoration.

I'm going to do a Mike Pence now and barricade myself away before buck reads that ... 

[redside1]

90% of the rivers i fish are 1 hatchery fish per day or realase all steelhead here in the lower mainland. i have never encountered a hatchery fish in a river where i though it shouldn't be.

I have caught over the years hatchery stray steelhead in many rivers that they were not planted in at the time.
Places like Gold River, Nimpkish river, squamish both upper and lower squamish river, Ashlu, Cheakamus, Mamquam, Indian to just name a few.
In recent years guys have been catching hatchery summer steelhead in the Mamquam river. This has happened since the Seymour river rock slide.
Fish stray a pile.

[Rodney]

I wonder if participation would drop?  Fishing on wild fish would attract a lot of people, especially from out of country ( when that happens again, lol) and those people tend to have deep pockets.  Anyway, by then it will be FN dictating the terms 

Seriously, imo the best thing to happen would be to stop steelhead production at the Chilliwack hatchery and spend the money on habitat restoration.

I'm going to do a Mike Pence now and barricade myself away before buck reads that ... 

Haha...

There are so many approaches to manage this recreational fisheries, but the end goal, which we anglers need to keep reminding ourselves, should always be the preservation of fish first. No fish, no fishing.

[redside1]

The regional daily quota has been in place for a long time and I have yet to hear of a case of an angler killing a wild steelhead that was thought to be a hatchery steelhead.

I saw this happen on the upper squamish river many years ago. It was done by an American angler because at the time they had in place a dis formed dorsal fish was also classified has a hatchery fish in Washington state. he thought it was the same deal in BC.
Showed me the card to "prove" he has killed a hatchery fish.
I showed him our regulations and he left the river before I made it to a CO to report him.

[RalphH]

I have caught over the years hatchery stray steelhead in many rivers that they were not planted in at the time.
Places like Gold River, Nimpkish river, squamish both upper and lower squamish river, Ashlu, Cheakamus, Mamquam, Indian to just name a few.
In recent years guys have been catching hatchery summer steelhead in the Mamquam river. This has happened since the Seymour river rock slide.
Fish stray a pile.

well it is a known fact that some percentage of salmonids will enter streams that are not their natal rivers and spawn there. No doubt some hatch fish carry such a 'wandering gene'.Reports of summer run fish in the Squamish have been around for a very long time though a sudden increase on the Mamquam certainly could be fish from the Seymour. Similar things happened with Toutle steelhead and salmon after St Helen's errupted.

[bigblockfox]

This brings up my next question. So are we, or the province, ok with having strictly catch and release wild steelhead fisheries? Or is that going to be unacceptable in the long run. DFO has already made that move last year, removing all exclusive catch and release fisheries for salmon in Region 2, and will managing rec freshwater salmon fisheries by either opening for retention, or closing completely.

Personally I'm not ok with having a wild steelhead catch and release fishery at the same level of access which the Vedder sees.

so legally you are not aloud to target coho on the upper pitt anymore. thats a bummer. if my memory serves me right it was just chinook that was closed.

i wonder when people are just going to play it and fish anyway. sad state of affairs.

[bigblockfox]

I'm going to do a Mike Pence now and barricade myself away before buck reads that ... 

bahahaaha, im sure mitch is in their with pence.

[stsfisher]

One thing missing in all of these discussions. Actual hatchery steelhead witnessed on the spawning grounds with wild fish.
1 fish 2 fish retention means nothing if they do not know the magnitude of "the problem". Maybe an angler should be allowed 3 fish a day 😉 yes a bit tongue in check with that comment, but the province has no data other than a study done 20 years ago designed to put hatchery fish on beds.

[avid angler]

I wonder if participation would drop?  Fishing on wild fish would attract a lot of people, especially from out of country ( when that happens again, lol) and those people tend to have deep pockets.  Anyway, by then it will be FN dictating the terms 

Seriously, imo the best thing to happen would be to stop steelhead production at the Chilliwack hatchery and spend the money on habitat restoration.

I'm going to do a Mike Pence now and barricade myself away before buck reads that ... 

I personally believe that if the hatchery program was cut that funding would simply disappear instead of being reallocated to anything else.

[Every Day]

Seriously, imo the best thing to happen would be to stop steelhead production at the Chilliwack hatchery and spend the money on habitat restoration.

Unfortunately Dave, I feel like you're only thinking on a single layer with this one. Sure, reallocation of the general costs for the hatchery program to habitat restoration would be great, but what about all the lost money on the Vedder in particular?

I'd go out on a limb here and say that the money generated from the various different derbies held every year would actually be similar to the amount you get from reallocation of the funds. I'd also tend to agree with avid angler that the money would likely be directed at other enhancement activities rather than back to the chilliwack/ Vedder itself.

One thing I wondered about recently when the Quatse hatchery program got cut was eyed egg plants. You have all the brood anglers and infrastructure in place already. Why not still capture the same number of wild pairs, matrix spawn them, and then plant eyed eggs. Much cheaper than smolt production, and you eliminate hatchery growth conditions. You could even do better and do what dfo does with endangered stocks - implant with a PIT tag (assigned number), do DNA analysis, and see which fish spawned together create the best genetic diversity. You could likely get better generic diversity this way than trying to let the few fish left (in places like Thompson for example) find each other and spawn with whatever mate they can find. You would also get better survival to eyed egg by a significant margin, and could plant them in tributaries/ areas that are less susceptible to floods, etc.