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[RalphH]

I simply tried to point out that posting grossly misleading comparative stats does not help the effort to convince those who still have questions

you are right on both counts - the comparative statistics listed were a bit of a muddle and it is ok to ask questions about that. They are correct as  far as I could see but involve differences in time periods. Indeed about 1 in 6 people will die of a heart attack over the course of a life span of 78 years (it's a US stat). However we only have covid statistics for a year and a few months so it's an apples and oranges comparison.

On the other hand we have no idea what the odds would be if covid had been allowed to follow some natural course without mask orders, lock downs gathering restrictions and so on in pursuit of a naturally induced herd immunity. If covid proceeded like the influenza pandemic of 1918/19 comparative world death rates could have been 200 million or more.

So we have to keep in mind simply pointing out this sort of error doesn't really change the perspective of the current pandemic or say much one way or the other about how serious  it is or how important it is to get fully vaccinated.

[typhoon]

Huh??
Have you even read the post I was referring to?

I'm way too busy for this stuff.

I'll leave you with my favourite Mark Twain quote: "Never argue with a stupid person. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Have a great day!

Questioning random statistics to justify your anti-vaccine position in the face of overwhelming evidence is moronic. Stop acting like a child.

[IronNoggin]

Yes, that may be true. My point is, don't mislead people by saying that 3 in 100 people die of covid globally when you mean 3 in 100 people "infected" with covid die globally. BIG difference!

Indeed you have an excellent point, and I should have worded that a little (lot) better...

The accepted standard among UNVACCINATED (and before any vaccines were utilized) was a 97% Recovery Rate.
Both sides of the discussion still readily use that number on a daily basis.
Translates to a 3 % Mortality Rate = 3 out of 100 or 1 in 33.33.

If you look at cumulative numbers overall since the initial inception of the virus, you will see that rate has dropped by a significant degree. It now includes any and all that received a single dose or a double dose of the vaccine yet still managed to be infected.
We are discussing over a million deaths - prevented.
Which should indicate to most that the vaccines are actually doing their jobs in preventing serious illness, hospitalizations, and yes, death.

Apologies about the original presentation, and hope this addresses the matter in a clearer manner.

Nog

[Brian Babcock]

Appreciate that acknowledgement, Matt. Pretty sure we're all pulling on the same rope here.

I admit to being a bit naïve on these sites. My lifetime posts are about the same as your daily totals! (Still the best salmon candy recipe on the planet, BTW)

But I am astonished at how quickly something like pointing out a misleading stat evolved into me being called a selfish, anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorist, moronic, child!

Lol!! That's why I fish and hunt! All good......

[IronNoggin]

But I am astonished at how quickly something like pointing out a misleading stat evolved into me being called a selfish, anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorist, moronic, child!

Unfortunately I am seeing that on a much more frequent basis, and escalating in nature, from both sides of the camp on this matter.

Hope folks can get around themselves, and focus upon what is best for them and their communities without the vitriol!

Cheers & Best of Luck in the pursuits this year!
Nog

[IronNoggin]

Further developments:

WHO Demands ‘Audits’ Of Chinese Labs, Admits First Cases Didn’t Come From Huanan Wet Market

The World Health Organization (WHO) is demanding that “audits” be conducted of Chinese labs in the vicinity of where the first cases of SARS-CoV-2 were identified — a development that comes at approximately the same time that the organization admitted that the first cluster of cases did not come from a nearby wet market in Wuhan.

In May, The Wall Street Journal reported that three researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) — China’s only Biosafety level-4 laboratory — were hospitalized in November 2019 with symptoms consistent with COVID-19, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/w-h-o-demands-audits-of-chinese-labs-admits-first-cases-didnt-come-from-huanan-wet-market

China Responds:

Covid: China rejects WHO plan for second phase of virus origin probe

The WHO wants to audit laboratories in the area the virus was first identified.

But Zeng Yixin, deputy health minister, said this showed "disrespect for common sense and arrogance toward science".

Speaking at a press conference on Thursday, Mr Zeng said he was extremely surprised by the WHO proposal because it focused on alleged violations of China's laboratory protocols.

He said it was "impossible" for China to accept the terms, adding that the country had submitted its own origins-tracing recommendations.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57926368

[RalphH]

But I am astonished at how quickly something like pointing out a misleading stat evolved into me being called...

it's because vaccine hesitancy and misinformation is costing lives. People are dying because that nonsense convinces them not to get vaccinated. Some covid victims lying on their death bed now plead to get the vaccine not realizing it has to be administered before a person gets an active case:

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564114-im-sorry-but-its-too-late-doctor-says-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-asking?amp

An Alabama doctor is opening up about her experience treating those hospitalized for the coronavirus amid a resurgence of cases, saying dying patients are asking her to vaccinate them.

"One of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I'm sorry, but it's too late," Brytney Cobia, a hospitalist at Grandview Medical Center in Birmingham, wrote on Facebook this week.

"A few days later when I call time of death, I hug their family members and I tell them the best way to honor their loved one is to go get vaccinated and encourage everyone they know to do the same," Cobia added.

Alabama has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country, with only 33 percent of its population fully vaccinated, according to data from John Hopkins University.

[IronNoggin]

On other fronts:

Fact Check-COVID-19 vaccines are not ‘cytotoxic’​

Posts are sharing the false statement that the spike protein in COVID-19 vaccines is cytotoxic, suggesting that it kills or damages cells. There is no evidence to support this. YouTube video with the caption: “Spike protein is very dangerous, it’s cytotoxic (Robert Malone, Steve Kirsch, Bret Weinstein).”

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-cytotoxic-idUSL2N2O01XP

Fact Check-No evidence spike proteins from COVID-19 vaccines are toxic​

There is no proof that spike proteins created in response to mRNA vaccines are harmful to the body, scientists have told Reuters. The claim was made by immunologist Byram Bridle.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fac...rom-covid-19-vaccines-are-toxic-idUSL2N2NX1J6

If you see something that has Byram Bridle or Robert Malone you can disregard it as misinformation.

Scientists often disagree with each other, that is part of the scientific process. They submit evidence-based arguments in scientific journals when they disagree. They don't go on obscure YouTube channels to make their one sided case.

Cheers,
Nog

[Hike_and_fish]

"Asking questions is anti-vaxxer code" Are you serious? What a ridiculous statement!
First of all, I never once said that I was anti-vax. I think vaccines are a modern marvel. I also never questioned the severity of the disease. I simply tried to point out that posting grossly misleading comparative stats does not help the effort to convince those who still have questions. True to form, labels immediately followed - "anti-vaxxer", "selfish". The very basis of science is to ask questions. This "Don't ask questions - JUST OBEY!!!!" attitude is going to take us backwards.

I knew I should of stayed out of this.......

Don't worry dude. Lots of people like us still have backbone to ask questions. The masses have become so brainwashed now they wouldn't be able to find their way out of a wet paper bag without the government helping them. Since when has the government never lied to the public or pharmaceutical companies covered up evidence of wrongdoings ? Oh yes,ALL THE TIME !! BUT HEY, J&J knowingly lied to the public about Baby powder and opioids. Now they have to pay up for two separate crimes. Don't worry tho, that vaccine they're producing is totaly safe.

[typhoon]

.

[Roderick]

From
 https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-will-not-follow-whos-suggested-plan-2nd-phase-covid-19-origins-study-2021-07-22/

"One key part of the lab leak theory has centred on the Wuhan Institute of Virology's (WIV) decision to take offline its gene sequence and sample databases in 2019.
When asked about this decision, Yuan Zhiming, professor at WIV and the director of its National Biosafety Laboratory, told reporters that at present the databases were only shared internally due to cyber attack concerns."

But really this is just the tip of the iceberg.  China has taken all it's biological sequence data offline in the last couple of years. 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-china-bgi-dna/

"Beijing made clear in a 2019 regulation that genetic data can be a national security matter, and since 2015 it has restricted foreign researchers from accessing gene data on Chinese people."

[cutthroat22]

a Typhoon appears
she hates everyone the same
"CAW, CAW, CAW" she screams!

[typhoon]

.

[cutthroat22]

What’s your damage little boy?

You name call a gent
a wise man who asks questions
rod building legend

[typhoon]

Cases have started rising in BC due to Delta. We are still under 50% fully vaccinated and no longer have the luxury of time to tolerate the anti-vaxxers. They are a direct threat to our safety and will lead to reinstatement of restrictions.
Here is Louisiana for reference.
https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1418198376999313412?s=21