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[Fish Assassin]

Apologies for the double post but here's another quote from the same article that rings true for me:

I wish I could hand out trophies to those who have endured so much. After what everyone has been through, so many people deserve a trophy instead of only the invisible badges of honor and courage we have pinned on them. For the rest of their lives, I want them all to be walking around with a smoothie in one hand and a big gleaming trophy in the other. But in the same way, perhaps those who did not sacrifice — who laughed in the face of a serious threat to so many lives — should be forced to wear cheap, poorly made hats with stupid sayings on them.

Or UV tatooed on their forehead.

[RalphH]

Frankly the link to holocaust victims in that tattoo suggestion is off putting. The suggestion they be 'forced to wear cheap, poorly made hats with stupid sayings on them' not much less so.

Let's no forget those, who for medical reasons, are unable to get a vaccine.

As for those who won't get one for other reasons despite the evidence it's the best thing to do for an individual and those they come in contact with,  that's their business.

However trying to convince other people to do likewise with the shoddiest of rationals is reprehensible.  Let's not forget the one true  conspiracy to discredit vaccines in general was done by anti-vaxxers. The current list of fallacious vaccine claims has continued through this pandemic, which is not over yet. It still rages in India and other 3rd and 4th world countries & we are not out of the woods here yet either.

According to an NPR report the bulk of fallacious Covid vaccine claims can be traced to 12 people, all either anti-vaccine activists or anti-vaccine entrepreneurs who make substantial money from peddling anti-vaccine merchandise. The alternative health movement is in large part, about money and these people are reaping profits from those who desperately don't want to be seen as "sheeple". Don't shame them. Pity the fools.

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes

https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_b7cedc0553604720b7137f8663366ee5.pdf

[cutthroat22]

We are vaxxed to the max in British Columbia (urban areas).  Mostly it's just those small pockets of rural organic meat and veggie eating Covidiots that are saying "no thanks" to the shot(s) in arm(s) that are mostly are super safe and effective.

Personally I think it's time to turn Covid off and focus on regional issues that affect the economy and mortality.   Hot air just totally overwhelmed our health care system.  Will it happen again this summer?  Traditionally a heat wave in June will be less hot than a heat wave in July and August.  I think waiting until September 7th to relax the Covid rules is ridiculous.

I preferred the original "Corvid" thread.  It was much more entertaining and I believe the crows and ravens have some regional knowledge.  This one is lacking one or two characters.

[IronNoggin]

Failed China vaccine contract included undisclosed “non-refundable” cash payment

https://tnc.news/2021/07/02/failed-china-vaccine-contract-included-undisclosed-non-refundable-cash-payment/

[IronNoggin]

Unvaccinated people are 'variant factories,' infectious diseases expert says

Unvaccinated people do more than merely risk their own health. They're also a risk to everyone if they become infected with coronavirus, infectious disease specialists say.

That's because the only source of new coronavirus variants is the body of an infected person.

"Unvaccinated people are potential variant factories," Dr. William Schaffner, a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, told CNN Friday.

"The more unvaccinated people there are, the more opportunities for the virus to multiply," Schaffner said.
"When it does, it mutates, and it could throw off a variant mutation that is even more serious down the road."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/unvaccinated-people-are-variant-factories-infectious-diseases-expert-says-1.5495359

[cutthroat22]

Corvid-22
caused by eating uncooked crow
the ravens know this
 

[Hike_and_fish]

Unvaccinated people are 'variant factories,' infectious diseases expert says

Unvaccinated people do more than merely risk their own health. They're also a risk to everyone if they become infected with coronavirus, infectious disease specialists say.

That's because the only source of new coronavirus variants is the body of an infected person.

"Unvaccinated people are potential variant factories," Dr. William Schaffner, a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, told CNN Friday.

"The more unvaccinated people there are, the more opportunities for the virus to multiply," Schaffner said.
"When it does, it mutates, and it could throw off a variant mutation that is even more serious down the road."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/unvaccinated-people-are-variant-factories-infectious-diseases-expert-says-1.5495359

I told you all that they would blame the unvaccinated. I told you ! When the reality is the vaccinated are causing the mutations.

[psd1179]

I told you all that they would blame the unvaccinated. I told you ! When the reality is the vaccinated are causing the mutations.

Th Mutation is happening every second. Nothing to do with Vaccine

[wildmanyeah]

Th Mutation is happening every second. Nothing to do with Vaccine

well....sorta...The more people that get vaccinated the more natural selection will be influenced.  Eventually the mutation that spreads is the one that learns to adapt to survive in a vaccinated population.

The delta variant however, currently the worst on a number of metrics was born in an largely unvaccinated population in India.  Of course its more infectious those types of mutations will winout in an unvaccinated pop. 

its likely that the Delta will likely be out competed by a vaccine resistant mutation in the years to come.

[RalphH]

well....sorta...The more people that get vaccinated the more natural selection will be influenced.  Eventually the mutation that spreads is the one that learns to adapt to survive in a vaccinated population.

uh and do you have examples where vaccines resulted in resistant virus strains with other viruses and vaccines?

Conversely smallpox was completely eradicated from the planet via the use of vaccines. It was the largest vaccine program known and went to all parts of the Earth. Similar situation with Polio. Mass polio vaccination - it was mandatory for school kids has seen polio all but eradicated in North America and Europe. it was very common up until the late 50s and 60s when the vaccine became available. i knew people who had polio and were crippled in various ways.  Shame tese lessons are ignored.   

[psd1179]

well....sorta...The more people that get vaccinated the more natural selection will be influenced.  Eventually the mutation that spreads is the one that learns to adapt to survive in a vaccinated population.

That is a very weird thinking. The natural selection is always there. Each virus duplicates non-stop. The natural selection is through our immune system regardless the host is vaccinated or not. The Covid Vaccine is not anti-biotics. You might mixed them up with that idea.

The more vaccinated, the less spread of the virus. the base virus population is less. the less mutation accordingly.

On the contrary, without vaccine, the spread is increasing exponentially, the more variance produced through mutation process.

[wildmanyeah]

uh and do you have examples where vaccines resulted in resistant virus strains with other viruses and vaccines?

Conversely smallpox was completely eradicated from the planet via the use of vaccines. It was the largest vaccine program known and went to all parts of the Earth. Similar situation with Polio. Mass polio vaccination - it was mandatory for school kids has seen polio all but eradicated in North America and Europe. it was very common up until the late 50s and 60s when the vaccine became available. i knew people who had polio and were crippled in various ways.  Shame tese lessons are ignored.

The flu,

Also we’re talking about a coronavirus here, high rate of mutation, not as fast as the flu but faster then most virus.

What the vaccine is really good at is turning this from a Noval virus into one our bodies will recognize

Eradication was never a goal ot was always about reduction in sysmptoms from a virus that is unrecognized by your immune system. 

RNA viruses, like the flu and measles, are more prone to changes and mutations compared with DNA viruses, such as herpes, smallpox, and human papillomavirus (HPV).

[RalphH]

The comparison doesn't work. Influenza and covid-19 are not related. There is no evidence flu vaccines lead to influenza variants as the variants for each coming new flu season are identified and sampled from areas where vaccination rates are low to non-existent. Influenza vaccination rates in Canada are about 40% - much lower than for covid.

vaccines doesn't turn the virus into anything. They condition our immune system to produce anti-bodies against the virus when it is present which means the virus can't reproduce to any extent in a human body. As psd1179 that will actually greatly reduce if not eliminate the probability of it producing a variant at all.

[wildmanyeah]

The comparison doesn't work. Influenza and covid-19 are not related. There is no evidence flu vaccines lead to influenza variants as the variants for each coming new flu season are identified and sampled from areas where vaccination rates are low to non-existent. Influenza vaccination rates in Canada are about 40% - much lower than for covid.

vaccines doesn't turn the virus into anything. They condition our immune system to produce anti-bodies against the virus when it is present which means the virus can't reproduce to any extent in a human body. As psd1179 that will actually greatly reduce if not eliminate the probability of it producing a variant at all.

Yeah patato potato Ralph, I get what your saying if we could somehow vaccinate the whole world all at once but that’s just not happening.

Currently over 15k vaccinated people in the UK are being infected with covid daily. Vaccine can cause pressure selection of variants.

But it does not matter if we get Thoes variants are are asymptomatic does it because it’s no longer a novel virus.

I’m not arguing against getting a vaccine everyone should get one you don’t want your immune system to fight a virus it’s not seen before.

All I’m saying is that having a vaccinated population can have an influence on how what what
Variants spread.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00544-9

Concerns have been raised that expanding the fraction of the population with partial immunity to SARS-CoV-2 could increase selection for vaccine-escape variants, ultimately undermining vaccine effectiveness. We argue that, although this is possible, preliminary evidence instead suggests such strategies should slow the rate of viral escape from vaccine or naturally induced immunity. As long as vaccination provides some protection against escape variants, the corresponding reduction in prevalence and incidence should reduce the rate at which new variants are generated and the speed of adaptation. Because there is little evidence of efficient immune selection of SARS-CoV-2 during typical infections, these population-level effects are likely to dominate vaccine-induced evolution.

[RalphH]

uh... half truths at best.

it's well known that vaccines provide about 50% avoidance of symptomatic infection hence the push to get people fully vaccinated. The other 50% mostly experience 'mild' symptoms some may get moderate symptoms and serious infections

But it does not matter if we get Thoes variants are are asymptomatic does it because it’s no longer a novel virus.

meaningless - calling covid19 novel simply indicated it was not previously known and has nothing to do with whatever it is you are trying to say.

Viruses do not mutate to reduce vaccine efficiency. It's not like they have a plan. Genetic mutations are random. The vast majority offer no advantage to the specific antigen. By chance a very small number will. The larger the number of reproducing viruses in a host population the higher the chance is that a specific mutation that reduces vaccine efficiency will happen. Vaccination particularly full vaccination reduces the number active viruses in the host population and reduces the chance a mutation that reduces future vaccine efficiency will occur.