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[wildmanyeah]

Rod said there were 600-700 coho in the hatchery already. Why bother set up the trap? just scoop the fish in the hatchery

I’d imagine harvesting in a fish trap, bringing the fish back to the community. Preparing the fish and having a fest is rather an important part.

I’m sure any fish men can relate that has children how showing your kids the process is rewarding and important.

[stsfisher]

The total length of the lead line is 300', the trap is not 300' across. The trap is required to be less than 2/3 across the channel starting from the shallow side, leaving the deeper side of the channel open. This is being set up just downstream from the Sumas confluence where it enters the Vedder, not the Vedder/Sumas confluence to the Fraser.

Interesting........thanks for clarification.
 I know those involved have discussed the pros and cons regarding potential conflict with this type of system being used on such a small area with the highest ratio of boaters and anglers during peak season. I look forward to seeing how this all plays out and hope everyone learns to be patient while behaving appropriatly.
If this past week down in the lower is any indicator of how busy the boat traffic is gonna be this season I think everyone better figure put how to behave themselves and learn how to be alot more curtious to others around them. Alot of nonsense already and it's early yet.

[iblly]

Nice fish Rod !

[Rodney]

Interesting........thanks for clarification.
 I know those involved have discussed the pros and cons regarding potential conflict with this type of system being used on such a small area with the highest ratio of boaters and anglers during peak season. I look forward to seeing how this all plays out and hope everyone learns to be patient while behaving appropriatly.
If this past week down in the lower is any indicator of how busy the boat traffic is gonna be this season I think everyone better figure put how to behave themselves and learn how to be alot more curtious to others around them. Alot of nonsense already and it's early yet.

Definitely. If everyone wants selective fishing to work, then this needs all of our support. The concerns I had at the meeting were navigational hazard, vandalsim and seal predation. This is as new to the Sumas Nation as to us, everyone's just trying out new things to see what works. The trap is being set up as I type right now.

I’d imagine harvesting in a fish trap, bringing the fish back to the community. Preparing the fish and having a fest is rather an important part.

I’m sure any fish men can relate that has children how showing your kids the process is rewarding and important.

Exactly, the reasons we fish are all different. There are values which the Sumas First Nation wishes to preserve which may be different to others', time to try to understand how we value fish differently.

[DanTfisherman]

"time to use circle hooks Dan!"

I decided to read up on circle hooks for fly tying.
Concensus on most of the threads I read was quite poor, and most people did not like them, found them ineffective, and did not like tying on them.
I have used them gear fishing, but have not used them for fly fishing, but from what I read, I would likely agree.

I caught a lot of fish on this day.  My guess was that 5 were bleeders.  My guess is 2 or 3 of them did not make it.
My buddy was using spoons and spinners.  He had a good number, and some of his were bleeders too.
On this particular day, the fish were very fresh and aggressive.  They were being picked up on the retrieve.  Not much more to blame than the aggressive nature of the fish.
I have never really had this before, but on this particular day, I guess that is the way it goes.

I remember the sockeye survey Milo was involved in years ago where they monitored huge numbers of sockeye that were caught, where they were caught, condition/injuries, and tagged them.
In that study, I think less than 1 or 2 percent did not make it.
I believe the study showed a number of fish that were bleeding from the mouth did make it and survived just fine.
Concensus has traditionally been that fish bleeding from the mouth are gonners and will die.  I have seen articles lately that says that is not the case, so sometimes we never know.  Here is one:
https://fishwithjd.com/2016/08/02/hook-placement-if-it-bleeds-it-dies-right-not-so-fast/

Dano

[RalphH]

Sorry I understood the fish you caught had injected the fly into their gills or throats.

I've used circle hooks quite successfully! You don't set the hook with them though. Just keep on retrieving.

Fish hooked under the tongue (where there is a major artery) or in the gills will often bleed out rapidly. Gut hooking also has a high fatality rate Bleeding from the lips or mouth not so much. However it's important to remember that fatalities may happen hours or even days after the fish is released. Salmon are thought to have a finite stored energy resource timed to the length of their migration. Any non trivial injury could in theory drain this energy store below what they require to reach their spawning grounds and spawn successfully. 

[Dave]

Salmon are thought to have a finite stored energy resource timed to the length of their migration. Any non trivial injury could in theory drain this energy store below what they require to reach their spawning grounds and spawn successfully.

More to this is the evolving science showing stress has a detrimental affect on egg and sperm viability, meaning even if they spawn the resulting eggs may not survive as well as non stressed fish.

[Wiseguy]

Took a drive on the Vedder canal dyke below the Kieth Wilson rd to see how many people were out today. What I saw even I was shocked. There was at least 250 vehicles parked along the dyke down to the hwy bridge even in some spots on the rd itself making for one way traffic only. Every stretch of fishable water had anglers lined up elbow to elbow on both sides of the canal from the KWB all the way down to the Hwy bridge.Makes me wonder how a fish can swim through that gauntlet of lines and hooks drifting through each run.

[tim3500]

I don't live on the Vedder river anymore moved last October I can only view this from a distance on the internet .
One thing I never understood and still don't is all the bickering ,It's just fishing . Iam glad to give up a spot to this.
Was planning to come down to wet a line but after 50 plus years of fishing the Fraser Valley Iam finished anyone that knows me there more than welcome to come for a float on  the kettle or Columbia with me but leave the mess behind.
Oh message to Rod please delete my profile. I don't want to be reminded of the bickering .Its only fishing for God Sakes. Tim singing out.

[Rodney]

What bickering...? What I've seen in this thread has been quite positive so I'm a bit puzzled. Wiseguy is simply stating an observation. It's the weekend, hundreds of people are out fishing. Yeah it's busy, but everyone is having a good time otherwise they wouldn't be there.

[Rodney]

This is going on my FB page later tonight but thought I'd share it here first, so nobody could bicker...



It doesn’t get brighter than this! This Chilliwack River chinook jack was not just silver, but it had some unique spotting patterns on its head.

A chinook jack is a male chinook salmon which return to its natal stream one or two years earlier than it’s supposed to. These smaller males are reproductively mature, so can spawn with other females once they reach the spawning grounds.

Why exactly does this phenomenon occur, nobody really knows. Jacks can occur in other salmonid species as well, but they are most common among chinook and coho salmon. For a long time, we often think of jacks as more inferior than other specimens, but they are in fact an insurance policy which may keep the populations alive. Because they return a year or two earlier, they end up spawning with fish from a different cycle. It’s the only way for two different year cycles of salmon to interact genetically, keeping the stocks diverse and strong.

If you have been fishing the Chilliwack/Vedder River this fall, you’d probably notice the higher abundance of chinook jacks compared to previous years. There is a good explanation for it.

In 2019, under the Southern resident killer whale recovery plan, DFO decided to double the chinook salmon production at Chilliwack River Hatchery from 1 million to 2 million fish. Because the announcement came pretty late, the hatchery was only able to increase the production to 1.25 million fish.

The jacks you are catching today, are progeny of the 2019 broods. The 1/4 increase of the production, has resulted in a pretty good surge of jacks, and most likely a higher return of adults from the same broods next year. In 2020, the hatchery did reach the 2 million fish production target, so you can imagine how many more jacks we will see next year, and how many more adults we will see in 2023!

The chinook jacks are also quite a bit larger than previous year’s. The Chilliwack River regulations define jacks as chinook salmon which are under 62cm in length. Many jacks caught this year have been either just below or above that 62cm mark. This might suggest that ocean conditions are finally favourable for our salmon once again.

It’s easy to be caught up by the grim news of our salmon in the media, instead of learning these unique, positive stories of individual fish. We need to focus on these glimmers of hope, rather than assuming fish stock declines are imminent.

[milo]

This is going on my FB page later tonight but thought I'd share it here first, so nobody could bicker...



It doesn’t get brighter than this! This Chilliwack River chinook jack was not just silver, but it had some unique spotting patterns on its head.

A chinook jack is a male chinook salmon which return to its natal stream one or two years earlier than it’s supposed to. These smaller males are reproductively mature, so can spawn with other females once they reach the spawning grounds.

Why exactly does this phenomenon occur, nobody really knows. Jacks can occur in other salmonid species as well, but they are most common among chinook and coho salmon. For a long time, we often think of jacks as more inferior than other specimens, but they are in fact an insurance policy which may keep the populations alive. Because they return a year or two earlier, they end up spawning with fish from a different cycle. It’s the only way for two different year cycles of salmon to interact genetically, keeping the stocks diverse and strong.

If you have been fishing the Chilliwack/Vedder River this fall, you’d probably notice the higher abundance of chinook jacks compared to previous years. There is a good explanation for it.

In 2019, under the Southern resident killer whale recovery plan, DFO decided to double the chinook salmon production at Chilliwack River Hatchery from 1 million to 2 million fish. Because the announcement came pretty late, the hatchery was only able to increase the production to 1.25 million fish.

The jacks you are catching today, are progeny of the 2019 broods. The 1/4 increase of the production, has resulted in a pretty good surge of jacks, and most likely a higher return of adults from the same broods next year. In 2020, the hatchery did reach the 2 million fish production target, so you can imagine how many more jacks we will see next year, and how many more adults we will see in 2023!

The chinook jacks are also quite a bit larger than previous year’s. The Chilliwack River regulations define jacks as chinook salmon which are under 62cm in length. Many jacks caught this year have been either just below or above that 62cm mark. This might suggest that ocean conditions are finally favourable for our salmon once again.

It’s easy to be caught up by the grim news of our salmon in the media, instead of learning these unique, positive stories of individual fish. We need to focus on these glimmers of hope, rather than assuming fish stock declines are imminent.

Thank you for the excellent explanation on chinook jacks Rod. Now everything makes more sense. I have akways preferred jacks to adults (easier to carry out of the bush when the car is miles away, no need to put them down on the license, you can keep as many as you want within your daily limit, etc...). I swear they are tastier than the big ones, too.
I've landed several this season that still had sea lice on. 😊
Whire, red or marbled, chinook jacks rock!

[essyoo]

That's such a nice fish Rod. Gotta get out this week and see if I can get into one!

[Rodney]

This is going on my FB page later tonight but thought I'd share it here first, so nobody could bicker...



It doesn’t get brighter than this! This Chilliwack River chinook jack was not just silver, but it had some unique spotting patterns on its head.

A chinook jack is a male chinook salmon which return to its natal stream one or two years earlier than it’s supposed to. These smaller males are reproductively mature, so can spawn with other females once they reach the spawning grounds.

Why exactly does this phenomenon occur, nobody really knows. Jacks can occur in other salmonid species as well, but they are most common among chinook and coho salmon. For a long time, we often think of jacks as more inferior than other specimens, but they are in fact an insurance policy which may keep the populations alive. Because they return a year or two earlier, they end up spawning with fish from a different cycle. It’s the only way for two different year cycles of salmon to interact genetically, keeping the stocks diverse and strong.

If you have been fishing the Chilliwack/Vedder River this fall, you’d probably notice the higher abundance of chinook jacks compared to previous years. There is a good explanation for it.

In 2019, under the Southern resident killer whale recovery plan, DFO decided to double the chinook salmon production at Chilliwack River Hatchery from 1 million to 2 million fish. Because the announcement came pretty late, the hatchery was only able to increase the production to 1.25 million fish.

The jacks you are catching today, are progeny of the 2019 broods. The 1/4 increase of the production, has resulted in a pretty good surge of jacks, and most likely a higher return of adults from the same broods next year. In 2020, the hatchery did reach the 2 million fish production target, so you can imagine how many more jacks we will see next year, and how many more adults we will see in 2023!

The chinook jacks are also quite a bit larger than previous year’s. The Chilliwack River regulations define jacks as chinook salmon which are under 62cm in length. Many jacks caught this year have been either just below or above that 62cm mark. This might suggest that ocean conditions are finally favourable for our salmon once again.

It’s easy to be caught up by the grim news of our salmon in the media, instead of learning these unique, positive stories of individual fish. We need to focus on these glimmers of hope, rather than assuming fish stock declines are imminent.

I made a mistake in the previous post about the chinook salmon productions and mixed up the years while trying to get all this information on the phone the other day. 1.29 million smolts were released in 2019, not 2020. In 2020, 2 million (2.2m actually) were released and the jacks you're catching right now are from that release, that's why there's such a big surge of them right now. Next year we shall see a big return of adult chinooks.

[Rodney]

Thank you for the excellent explanation on chinook jacks Rod. Now everything makes more sense. I have akways preferred jacks to adults (easier to carry out of the bush when the car is miles away, no need to put them down on the license, you can keep as many as you want within your daily limit, etc...). I swear they are tastier than the big ones, too.
I've landed several this season that still had sea lice on. 😊
Whire, red or marbled, chinook jacks rock!

Great Milo! Hope you have been able to come out here again since we saw each other a few weeks ago.

That's such a nice fish Rod. Gotta get out this week and see if I can get into one!

The fishing yesterday morning was pretty unreal... It was busy, but I fished the tailout below a big crowd and in 1.5 hours from 7am I managed to released three wild coho, lost two more, and hooked another dozen silver chinook like the other photo. Two were adult chinook and the rest were jacks.