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Fully Satisfied

0 (0%)

Relatively Satisified but there could be improvements

14 (63.6%)

Not satisified - FFSBC should be doing more in Region 2

8 (36.4%)

Prefer not to answer (ie don't fish in Region 2)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: October 16, 2023, 01:05:00 PM

[RalphH]

I wonder if FFSBC is providing enough service and program in Region 2 which means the Lower Mainland and Fraser Valley given the number of licensed anglers who live here.  Specifically I mean do they stock enough  fish, fund habitat improvements and improve access to fishing opportunities (such as providing fishing docks, boat access and improving trail access where appropriate).

It's hard to gauge what they do by region but I have had a look at their latest Annual Report for the year ended March 31, 2023 and for me, it raised some questions.

First per the report the goal of the FFSBC is : 

to make fishing in B.C. even better through the enhancement and conservation of B.C.’s freshwater fish resources.

The major measurable management achievements they offer  is the number of fish stocked and there are some major troubling regional discrepancies.

The annual report states that about 1/3 of licenses are purchased by anglers who reside in Region 2. Further the population of Region 2 is close to 50% of the Provincial total.

Yet the stocking  reported by FFSBC  in Region 2 is at 387,586, among lowest by Region in the reporting year and comprised only 7% of the Provincial total. Included in that total are 224,162 steelhead smolts from Federal (182,270) and Community hatcheries  (41,869). Best I know FFSBC contributes little or no funding to this federal steelhead program and I have no idea if and what they contribute to community steelhead  programs.

The two Regions that receive the most stocked fish from FFSBC are Region 5 (Cariboo/Chilcotin) at 2,331,237 and Region 3 (Thomson) at 1,061,842.

I also had a look at past years and checked in detail 1990, a time I recall the fishing locally was much better than today and prior to major cuts in funding over the following 2 decades. Back then Region 2 stocking was close to 870,000. Included in that were over 190,000 cutthroat, 121,400 went into streams. That program has been eliminated while stocking of cutthroat in lakes has been paired down to a few thousand stocked into a few lakes near Pender Harbour.

Now I acknowledge  such comparisons may be superficial. Some programs were perhaps found not to work or were not sustainable. Other regions do have more quality lakes etc. There is a goal to enhance tourism plus improve business opportunities in smaller communities. The Federal hatcheries in Region 2 provide enhanced salmon numbers not done in most other regions. That may explain a good part of the discrepancies.

 On the other hand, Vancouver Island has received funding to enhance searun cutthroat habitat and for lake fertilization programs.

Back in 1990 more lakes were stocked in Region 2 and with more variety. More rainbow strains were stocked, more lakes were stocked with younger trout that would give them a chance to adapt to a lake environment rather than a hatchery pond before they would be targeted by anglers and so hopefully provide more quality angling. Little of that is done today.

So I'd ask you to think about the points I've made and answer the poll. Provide your own comments and observations. Read those provided by others. I have set the poll up so you can change your vote based on the input of others.

Other resources to have a look at.

The FFSBC Annual Report: https://ffsbcprod.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/2022-Annual-Report.pdf stocking info is on Page 11

FFSBC website: https://www.gofishbc.com/

BC Fishing Regulations for Region 2 including a map: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/freshwater-fishing/region_2_lower_mainland.pdf

[Bavarian Raven]

Sadly, IMHO, no. There are so many more lakes (and rivers) that could be stocked / worked to enhance fishing options/experiences, etc. It seems like they do the bare minimum and wipe their hands of it. Now, I know funding, etc, is always an issue, but considering the percentage of pop. in the lowermainland, we deserve a bit more TLC fishing wise.

[coastangler]

Thanks Ralph. I have noticed a similar pattern in the stockings for the different regions and yes, many LM lakes which actually support small local lake Cutthroat populations could do with some love and have some targeted enhancement programs to support these almost disappearing strains. I get that searun CT stocking for Fraser tribs and LC was deemed not beneficial by the province biologists (even though it's OK in the Oyster river?) but I never understood why we couldn't enhance more LM lakes other than a handful in Whistler and Sunshine coast areas

[RalphH]

I was in contact with the then Regional biologist (since retired) about the cancellation of the SRC stocking program. In hindsight I wished i asked him what was going to happen to the funding for that program. Was it just cut from the budget or was it transferred somewhere else, like another region?

[firebird]

I was in contact with the then Regional biologist (since retired) about the cancellation of the SRC stocking program. In hindsight I wished i asked him what was going to happen to the funding for that program. Was it just cut from the budget or was it transferred somewhere else, like another region?

The Society's Native Trout Stewardship Initiative was started soon after the Lower Mainland's cutthroat program was cancelled. Perhaps that is where some of the funding was directed.

[RalphH]

It's been a week since I posted this poll and am providing an update.

I have also posted the poll on 2 Facebook pages that have a focus on fishing in Region 2.

So far 35 votes have been collected but 2 were disqualified by 2 respondents who had voted Twice. Facebook allows this but I counted only one response from each.

20 votes selected Relatively Satisfied but there could be improvements

13 votes selected Not Satisfied - FFSBC should be doing more in Region 2

there were no votes for Fully Satisfied or Prefer not to answer.

At this point  what does this mean? I assigned a value to  each selection as follows

3 for Fully Satisfied, 2 for Relatively Satisfied and 1 for Not Satisfied. If anyone had selected Prefer not to answer I would assign no value to those votes but I would report it.

Total points to day: (2 x 20) + (13 x1) = 53

Average score is 53/33 = 1.6

Roughly half way between Relatively satisfied and Not Satisfied.

Stay tuned.

[Darko]

well it definitely feels like much more needs to be done. What exactly? I'm not sure I haven't looked deep into it. But it feels like any time I want any decent fishing or good fishing I need to drive 100 km or 200-500. And when you start talking about public transport. Well I hope you don't mind fishing stocked lakes every trip.

[wildmanyeah]

there is only so much they can do for the few lakes around, most they have already put on fishing docks.

[SuperBobby]

Region 2 has always had premium fishing in hike in lakes. Back in the 90s they would helicopter you into lakes in the FV mountains that you could dry fly for 20 inch+ rainbows all day. The lakes were stocked as trophy lakes. Not to mention back then the fish were stocked as diploids. I'm sure if they did sterile triploids like they do today....those fish would be much bigger. I was younger and hiked into the odd one here and there. The fishing experience was unbeatable.
I realize these were well off the beaten path, but my point is that with the right management, I think Region 2 has many lakes that could be managed as trophy C&R.

[coastangler]

The love that  Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC gives to region 1 (Vancouver Island) compared to Region 2 (Lower mainland) is crazy. In addition to the issues discussed in this post, we now also get the smallest trout 

See for yourself. We just got 4 stockings in October 12th - the trout has an average size of 177.305

https://www.gofishbc.com/stocked-fish/?reportType=lake&start=2023-10-01&end=2023-10-31&region=LOWER%20MAINLAND

For Region two, their stockings started on October 2nd, and most of their trout are well above 200 grams (mostly ~240) but also a couple of lakes got 1000 trout of 700 grams each!!!

https://www.gofishbc.com/stocked-fish/?start=2023-10-01&end=2023-10-31&region=VANCOUVER%20ISLAND&reportType=lake

Does anyone know why there is such a discrepancy? Why lower mainland anglers get small fish and late?

[roeman]

Its so easy to complain that gov't sectors are not doing enough to keep people happy..
You will never be able to take public transit and catch a 5lb trout or catch 10 salmon in a day. LOL
If you are travelling 500km to catch a fish I can guarantee you the local people don't want you there.
What other province can you go kill 4 salmon per day in the fall?  Pretty excellent fishing in my opinion.
Personally I would like to see less less hatchery salmon released and reducing the limit to 1 or 2 a day...
And at least double the price of a license.  250 bucks for a license would be even better...
This may help reduce the number of people fishing...

[coastangler]

Its so easy to complain that gov't sectors are not doing enough to keep people happy..
You will never be able to take public transit and catch a 5lb trout or catch 10 salmon in a day. LOL
If you are travelling 500km to catch a fish I can guarantee you the local people don't want you there.
What other province can you go kill 4 salmon per day in the fall?  Pretty excellent fishing in my opinion.
Personally I would like to see less less hatchery salmon released and reducing the limit to 1 or 2 a day...
And at least double the price of a license.  250 bucks for a license would be even better...
This may help reduce the number of people fishing...

I agree with you on some points but I don't think my post has anything to with them. Van Isle has same or better Salmon fishing and retention opportunities than the Lower Mainland. What I'm asking is why not a single lake close to Vancouver gets 700g trout when the ones close to Victoria do even though Region 2 has more anglers than Region 1 simply based on a higher population. Also they get the stockings much earlier than us, in some cases two weeks. That's almost an extra month of better fishing than us if you sum the spring stocking with the fall ones...

Just so I'm not accused of complaining and doing nothing about it, I contacted the FFSBC and politely asked about this. Will post my findings here. I'm sure there are better reasons for it than just preferential treatment but hard to not get a bit jealous as a lake angler

[Darko]

I agree with you on some points but I don't think my post has anything to with them. Van Isle has same or better Salmon fishing and retention opportunities than the Lower Mainland. What I'm asking is why not a single lake close to Vancouver gets 700g trout when the ones close to Victoria do even though Region 2 has more anglers than Region 1 simply based on a higher population. Also they get the stockings much earlier than us, in some cases two weeks. That's almost an extra month of better fishing than us if you sum the spring stocking with the fall ones...

Just so I'm not accused of complaining and doing nothing about it, I contacted the FFSBC and politely asked about this. Will post my findings here. I'm sure there are better reasons for it than just preferential treatment but hard to not get a bit jealous as a lake angler

I know that Rodney has mentioned that the hatchery is now on Vancouver island, I assume they start there and then make their way around with the fish? I assume that's why they got stocking sooner maybe they just like to do a routine. It's also likely they wait on water temperatures to be right and those on the island get colder sooner due to elevation or weather. That is odd though I have never heard of 700 g stocked trout! Definitely seems like our stocked fishing continues to decline in the Lower mainland.

Roeman's comment is quite ridiculous and ignorant. Sure we can make licenses as expensive as we want to reduce the amount of anglers theoretically . Then in reality we will see 10 x more people breaking the rules not paying for licenses and less overall money going into the fisheries.

[RalphH]

I think the broodstock program in Abbotsford was shut down and now the Hatchery on the Island has a brood program that serves Region 2. The trout hatchery in Abbotsford is still active to the best of my knowledge. Coastangler is quite correct in that the Island definitely has more stocking programs then here as I pointed out in my opening post, to the tune of about twice as many rainbow and cutthroat. They also have a lake fertilization program and have programs to establish kokanee opportunities, projects to re-establish sea run cutthroat habitat, a ban (with exceptions) on the use of bait in streams to protect SRCs from high incidental mortality (as well other fish like summer steelhead) and a limited stocking program for SRCs (Quinsam and Oyster rivers in 2022, Oyster in 2023)- all things that have either been eliminated or are non-existent Region 2.

Oh and by the way it is still possible to take Public Transit to access salmon fishing in the Vancouver area and the LM/FV. One my have to walk a bit at the bus stop but it can be done.

[coastangler]

Got a response from the FFSBC. Pretty good response and some good nuggets of info there. I don't agree with everything in there but at least there seem to be decent reasons for the concerns brought up.

Thanks for your message. The fish released last week in the Lower Mainland were a little smaller than usual; however, this was an outlier case. If you look at the stocking reports for the Lower Mainland for the past few years, the average size of released fish is about 225 grams. 

It does vary each year how much the fish grow; this fall they didn’t experience as much growth before release. It is always a balancing act of waiting until the fish grow larger before release vs. releasing them in time for anglers to be able to go fishing before the weather gets too wet and cold (especially for these urban fisheries). Plus, optimal water temperatures play a part regarding the timing of stocking.


Regarding the difference in stocking numbers between Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland, this largely comes down to the number of lakes available and the size of the lakes. Vancouver Island has a higher number of larger lakes available for stocking when compared to the Lower Mainland. This results in a larger number of fish being reared and released on V.I.

Additionally, the existing larger lakes that are not currently stocked in the Lower Mainland area have wild fisheries with native species, so would not be suitable for stocking. However, many of the lakes in the LM that are stocked with catchable trout are stocked more intensively than V.I. lakes due to higher effort, receiving higher frequency of stockings (several annually in some cases), and higher densities of trout to provide urban fishing opportunities.

If there are certain lakes that you would like to see stocked, or existing stocked lakes that you believe should be stocked more frequently, you can always submit a request to the Region 2 Fish and Wildlife office (Ministry of Forests). The fisheries biologists manage the lakes in the region and decide which lakes to stock, and stocking numbers. The Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC is a contractor to the Province, and we stock the lakes under their direction and according to their stocking requests. You can find the contact details for the Fish and Wildlife office here (https://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/contact/).

In relation to your question about the 700 gram trout released on Vancouver Island- these fish are reared larger prior to release due to heavy predation from cormorants. We found that losses due to predation were significantly less when trout were released at a larger size. However, rearing these fish to a larger size does take more tank space, so the result is fewer fish available for stocking.

FFSBC does have some ideas to improve stocked fisheries in the Lower Mainland and we will be working with the Province to move some of these ideas forward in the near future.

I hope this helps answer your questions. If I can help with anything further, please let me know.