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[wildmanyeah]

Yep it sure does.

I think it comes down to what a person is advocating, the fish, or the fishery.

why does it matter if 1 million sockeye return of 10 million if were just going to keep the fishery closed?

[Rodney]

It doesn't matter to us, but I'd think that it'd make a significant difference for all watersheds and all inhabitants if the sockeye salmon abundance is increased by ten times.

[wildmanyeah]

It doesn't matter to us, but I'd think that it'd make a significant difference for all watersheds and all inhabitants if the sockeye salmon abundance is increased by ten times.

If fish come first, for the ecosystem needs, why are we bonking them and making cooking videos?

[Darko]

Yes it does. It's the most important part.

all of us here love and care for the fish, otherwise we wouldn't spend our time talking about them in this forum

but if we hypothetically never got to fish for them, most of us would spend considerably less time and money on them and they would be losing because anglers are always the ones pushing for habitat restoration and conservation.

I have never heard of commercial fishers donating money to conserving fish. They are businesses. Note I am not talking about family fishers who fish for a living and have been for a long time, but rather boats sponsored by big business or government that scoop up the whole recreational catch in half a day that end up rotting in superstore where there is a complete disconnect between consumer and fish.

Especially the young folks who have the rest of our lives to spend fishing, advocating and investing time and money, if we were to lose the opportunity to fish, I guarantee you we will all find new ways to spend our money and entertain ourselves.

Maybe a handful of retired folk will still out the same effort for the fish but will you still be around in 10, 30 years to support them?

[Rodney]

but if we hypothetically never got to fish for them, most of us would spend considerably less time and money on them and they would be losing because anglers are always the ones pushing for habitat restoration and conservation.

Yep, for sure as well. "If we don't use them, we wouldn't care about them". It's a difficult balance to achieve.

[wildmanyeah]

I am not asking to fish for pinks because i don't care about fish or want to catch the last one. or am some evil harvester out to get the last  one. I would not even necessarily be opposed to close all fishing for 10 years if applied to everyone.

but if the new management is going to bed yep always close or closed to non native access. Then yeah we have a problem. and frankly in that situation dont give two hoots if cultus lake get 10 sockeye or 10 thousand.

IS asking for some reasonable management out of DFO to much. seems like it is

[Phronesis]

If the closure is meant to keep bad anglers out then it wont work since they will always exist and will continue to practise it ....this is just like vedder bridge closure, those bad anglers will move elsewhere with their flossing techniques, enforcement is key and if dfo has officer resource issues then its like saying "i dont want to put money or effort into really fixing it"

Closure really does not solve the problem.....really i dont see a point in keeping the fraser closed if the concern is rare few sockeyes caught by bad anglers....instead take action when reported and ban these people ....US with ten times more population is more relaxed with recreational fishing.....i dont know the fishery politics in BC or in Canada but this is really sad

[Roderick]

You are missing the point. It's not anglers that catch sockeye, it's the nets.  And we don't get an opening unless the nets do.  Despite the fact that the rec fishery is the most selective and produces the most economic activity per fish, we are last on the list. 

[Phronesis]

You are missing the point. It's not anglers that catch sockeye, it's the nets.  And we don't get an opening unless the nets do.  Despite the fact that the rec fishery is the most selective and produces the most economic activity per fish, we are last on the list.

Ah I see, I saw a post that said the closure was due to poor angling practises happen when fraser opens when sockeye is still running and hence the delay or closure.....

Whats the reason behind giving priority to commercial guys and keeping out rec anglers?

[wildmanyeah]

The recreation pink fishery is not directly tied to commercial. All that needs to happen is tac needs to be identified and then recreational fisheries for pink, sockeye and chum can open.  So while TAC does have to be identified and that typically means enough to execute a commercial fishery it does not mean a commercial fishery has to occur to have a rec pink opening. 

case in point, ocean is open for rec pinks and chum and closed for sockeye.

[RalphH]

This topic has gone off on a number of tangents. There are just as many feelings and points of view as there are people in a discussion. To say a commercial fisherman or an FN fisherman doesn't care about IFS because they want to catch chum and make some money is just the opinion of a person or maybe a few people. Who knows? Doesn't mean that everyone who falls into a category feels the same as those people

My opinion is that without sufficient abundance of a species we don't get to fish. It's a rule and it's kind of imposed by law.However abundance is often different for different species and for different waters. IFS vs pinks is a good example. Historically an abundant run for IFS is what? In the recent past the Thompson opened when the estimate based Bison' model was like 800? If you go back to 80s it might have been a few thousand. The 50s it might have been 5k. Pinks it's several million or more It's apples and oranges.

The abundance of species means more than just fishing. It means a healthy ecosystem that benefits every creature part of that web. It makes for more fertile lakes and rivers. It makes for more joy when people go out and see salmon or trout, moving upstream, surfacing, spawning or seeing the little fry & smolt moving next spring.

Not saying close sport fishing. For some species the recreational sector doesn't have significant impact. For others it may.

I expect there will be an opening for pinks. But I have have to wait for it.

[wildmanyeah]

"It is currently estimated that 1,350,700 sockeye and 873,500 pink salmon have passed the
Mission hydroacoustics site. The Panel adopted a run size of 20,000,000 pink salmon with an
associated Area 20 timing of August 20."

Honestly 20 million seems like a lot to me looking at the test fisheries and comparing to to past catches but what do i know im not running the models.

[Roderick]

The recreation pink fishery is not directly tied to commercial. All that needs to happen is tac needs to be identified and then recreational fisheries for pink, sockeye and chum can open.  So while TAC does have to be identified and that typically means enough to execute a commercial fishery it does not mean a commercial fishery has to occur to have a rec pink opening. 

case in point, ocean is open for rec pinks and chum and closed for sockeye.

Ya the ocean seems to have a different management philosophy then the Fraser.  The TAC for Fraser pinks is there but there is no TAC for sockeye.  So no opening even though the rec sockeye bycatch (in the lower anyway) is zero. Although you are technically correct, the two fisheries are effectively tied together.  And of course the FN would cry bloody murder if there was a rec fishery before they were allowed to net. 

[wildmanyeah]

Ya the ocean seems to have a different management philosophy then the Fraser.  The TAC for Fraser pinks is there but there is no TAC for sockeye.  So no opening even though the rec sockeye bycatch (in the lower anyway) is zero. Although you are technically correct, the two fisheries are effectively tied together.  And of course the FN would cry bloody murder if there was a rec fishery before they were allowed to net.

First nations have been permitted to retain pinks in the fraser river since august 13th.

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/PinkKeptCatch.pdf

They have been netting chinook since March and full scale netting chinook since the week of August 13th

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/ChinookKeptCatch.html

[sockeyed]

was anyone in todays meeting? Any talk of rec opening?